[Compostteas] More on Fungi & Keeping Teas

Scott Alexander daylily@bigpond.com
Sat, 25 May 2002 10:01:27 +1000


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  When I lift the hay mulch the springtails are there by the 1000's, so =
I'm wondering if I=20
  should put that hay in the "hay teabag" and a couple of kg's of soil =
from=20
  the top two inches of the soil in the "compost tea bag" and thereby=20
  "capturing" lots of fungi. Once extracted they can then feed on the =
humic=20
  acid, seaweed and rockdust  in the tank. Am I on the right track???=20

  Elaine replied -=20
  I'm confused.  Hay bags?  Soil in the compost bag? =20

  Hi Elaine and the CT Group - OK,  lets start again. I have huge =
cultivated beds in which I grow my daylilies. The soil must very very =
fertile and have a pretty good soil food web because I plant a daylily =
piece the size of your thumb and a year later there is a huge clump with =
10 to 12 divisions in it. I mulch with organic hay between the rows and =
if I disturb the hay when digging plants, there are lots of springtails. =
So - I deduce, there could be lots of fungi in the top 2 inches & maybe =
some in the hay? If not, then maybe protozoa in the hay? I have a bag =
with alfalfa and hay hanging the brewer - is this not acceptable?=20

  Is it not a good practice to have soil in the brewer? It has never =
blocked the spray equipment.=20

  Another thing.  When I dig a daylily I often see a dozen or more worms =
around the roots and crown. Doesn't this mean they are feeding on the =
micro-organisms which have gathered there?  So . . . if I was to dig up =
a plant with a football-size ball of soil and place this in a bag in the =
tea, wouldn't the microbes from it be extracted? They certainly would be =
indigenous and wouldn't they be the "right" ones?  The root growth three =
to four months after planting is quite phenomenal and from this i deduce =
that there must be billions of beneficials in that root ball feeding off =
the root exudates and feeding the plant as well. It is always difficult =
to shake the soil off the roots,  so from that i deduce that there must =
be a huge population of microbes gathered there.=20
  So in the brewer there is a bag of compost, a bag of vermicast, a bag =
of rock dust, a bag of alfalfa & hay, and a bag of old forest litter and =
old wood chips which have fungi threads in it, plus - kelp, fish, humic =
acid, fulvic acid, molasses, and saponim. Now how could e. coli get in =
there?
  I don't think I mentioned it in the information I sent SFI with the =
last batch of tea that there was a daylily plant - leaves, roots and all =
- in a bag in the brew. Maybe it helped to build up the bacteria (Total =
=3D 983) and fungi (Total =3D 18.8)? Maybe it had no value at all?

  A lack of springtails doesn't mean no fungi.  Lots of other critters =
eat fungi.  Some recent work by Andy Moldenke suggests that enchytraeids =
eat fungi.  As do sow bugs, and earthworms, and beetle larve, and =
millipedes and centipedes and .....  a zillion other critters in the =
forest floor.  Low springtails may just mean someone else got there =
first.....=20

  That's good news! My next test will show fungi totals =3D 30 !?!? =
(VBG)=20

  Bad news arrived yesterday. The Dept of Ag authorities in the state of =
Victoria have just passed legislation which will prevent me sending =
plants to my clients down there unless my farm is inspected regularly by =
the Queensland Ag Dept and seen to be rust-free. When rust appeared for =
the first time in Australia in my nursery,  Quarantine closed me down =
for two months. During that time I negotiated with Qld authorities to =
allow me open again without having to dump tons of chemicals on the =
land, to experiment with alternative fungicides,  and to select =
cultivars which would  show  resistance to the disease over a 12 month =
period. From these cultivars I could begin a breeding program in the =
future and hope to develop new cultivars which were also very resistant. =


  Rust only develops on the above-ground parts of the plant so our =
mail-order plants were cut back to within half an inch of the crown and =
dipped in a fungicde.

  The "alternative fungicide" was compost teas of course. I had a hell =
of a job trying to get them to understand just what a CT was! I then =
pointed them in the direction of Soilfoodweb website and gave them a =
copy of the article in IPM Practitioner Sept 2001 "Compost Tea for =
Organic Farming and Gardening". =20

  During the past 6 months I have been applying a tea concentrate to the =
foliage in an acre plot and on the other 5 acres the remainder of the =
brew (50 gallons) has been spread through the overhead irrigation =
system. In the one acre plot I am seeing much better resistance to the =
disease than elsewhere although it is probably too early in the =
experiment to be sure about anything.  I have other smaller experiments =
in progress with CT as well and I'm reasonably certain it is preventing =
the rust spores from entering the leaves (If I had unlimited funds, I'd =
be testing, testing, testing!)
  As you can imagine, I am very disappointed with their decision. As =
expected, it was made by bureaucrats who:-
  know nothing about daylily rust (and who have been "got at" by my =
competors?),
  have not discussed my experimental program with me,
  have not been in touch with the plant pathologists in the USA who are =
doing research,=20
  and who have forgotten that I had already sent approx. 20,000 plants =
to clients in their State just prior to the detection of rust in my =
nursery. In other words,  "the horse had well and truly bolted"
  This is one law I feel sorely tempted to break but I shall think of =
something before Monday when i shall confront our State authorities. Why =
don't i use chemicals?  I am an organic farmer and there is a condition =
in the lease of this land that no chemicals are to be used.=20

  Scott



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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
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<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>When I lift the hay =
mulch the=20
  springtails are there by the 1000's, so I'm wondering if I <BR>should =
put that=20
  hay in the "hay teabag" and a couple of kg's of soil from <BR>the top =
two=20
  inches of the soil in the "compost tea bag" and thereby =
<BR>"capturing" lots=20
  of fungi. Once extracted they can then feed on the humic <BR>acid, =
seaweed and=20
  rockdust &nbsp;in the tank. Am I on the right track??? <BR><BR>Elaine =
replied=20
  - <BR>I'm confused. &nbsp;Hay bags? &nbsp;Soil in the compost=20
  bag?&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>Hi Elaine and the CT =
Group - OK, =20
  lets start again. I have huge cultivated beds in which I grow my =
daylilies.=20
  The soil must very very fertile and have a pretty good soil food web =
because I=20
  plant a daylily piece the size of your thumb and a year later there is =
a huge=20
  clump with 10 to 12 divisions in it. I mulch with organic hay between =
the rows=20
  and&nbsp;if I disturb the hay when digging plants, there are lots of=20
  springtails. So - I deduce, there could be lots of fungi in the top 2 =
inches=20
  &amp; maybe some in the hay? If not, then maybe protozoa in the hay? I =
have a=20
  bag with alfalfa and hay hanging the brewer - is this not acceptable?=20
  </FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Is it not a good practice to have =
soil in the=20
  brewer? It has never blocked the spray equipment. </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Another thing.  When I dig a daylily =
I often see=20
  a dozen or more worms around the roots and crown. Doesn't this mean =
they are=20
  feeding on the&nbsp;micro-organisms which have gathered there?&nbsp; =
So . . .=20
  if&nbsp;I was to dig up a plant with a football-size&nbsp;ball of soil =
and=20
  place this in a bag in the tea,&nbsp;wouldn't the&nbsp;microbes from =
it be=20
  extracted? They certainly would be indigenous and wouldn't they be the =
"right"=20
  ones? &nbsp;The root growth&nbsp;three to four months after planting =
is quite=20
  phenomenal and from this i deduce that there must be billions of =
beneficials=20
  in that root ball feeding off the root exudates&nbsp;and feeding the =
plant as=20
  well. It is always difficult to shake the soil off the roots,  so from =
that i=20
  deduce that there must be a huge population of microbes gathered =
there.=20
  </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So in the brewer there is a bag of =
compost, a bag=20
  of vermicast, a bag of rock dust, a bag of alfalfa &amp; hay, and a =
bag of old=20
  forest litter and old wood chips which have fungi threads in it, plus =
- kelp,=20
  fish, humic acid, fulvic acid, molasses, and saponim. Now how =
could&nbsp;e.=20
  coli get in there?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I don't think I mentioned it in the =
information I=20
  sent SFI with the last batch of tea that there was a daylily plant - =
leaves,=20
  roots and&nbsp;all - in a bag in the brew. Maybe it helped to build up =
the=20
  bacteria (Total =3D 983) and fungi (Total =3D 18.8)? Maybe it had no =
value at=20
  all?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>A lack of springtails =
doesn't=20
  mean no fungi. &nbsp;Lots of other critters eat fungi. &nbsp;Some =
recent work=20
  by Andy Moldenke suggests that enchytraeids eat fungi. &nbsp;As do sow =
bugs,=20
  and earthworms, and beetle larve, and millipedes and centipedes and =
.....=20
  &nbsp;a zillion other critters in the forest floor. &nbsp;Low =
springtails may=20
  just mean someone else got there first..... </FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>That's good =
news! My next=20
  test will show fungi totals =3D 30 !?!? (VBG) =
<BR></FONT></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Bad news =
arrived=20
  yesterday</STRONG>. The Dept of Ag authorities in the state of=20
  Victoria&nbsp;have just passed legislation which will prevent me =
sending=20
  plants to my clients down there unless my farm is inspected regularly =
by the=20
  Queensland&nbsp;Ag Dept and seen to be&nbsp;rust-free. When rust =
appeared for=20
  the first time in Australia in my nursery, &nbsp;Quarantine closed me =
down for=20
  two months. During that time I negotiated with Qld authorities to =
allow me=20
  open again without having to dump tons of chemicals on the land, to =
experiment=20
  with alternative fungicides,  and to select cultivars which would  =
show&nbsp;=20
  resistance to the disease over a 12 month period. From these cultivars =
I could=20
  begin a breeding program in the future and hope to develop new =
cultivars which=20
  were also very resistant.&nbsp;</FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rust only develops on the =
above-ground parts of=20
  the plant so our mail-order plants were cut back to within half an =
inch of the=20
  crown and dipped in a fungicde.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>The "alternative =
fungicide" was=20
  compost teas of course. I had a hell of a job trying to get them to=20
  understand&nbsp;just what a CT was!&nbsp;I then pointed them in the =
direction=20
  of Soilfoodweb website and gave them a copy of =
the&nbsp;article&nbsp;in IPM=20
  Practitioner Sept 2001 "Compost Tea for Organic Farming and =
Gardening".&nbsp;=20
  </FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>During the past 6 =
months I have=20
  been applying a tea concentrate to the foliage in an acre plot and on =
the=20
  other 5 acres the remainder of the&nbsp;brew (50 gallons) has been =
spread=20
  through the overhead irrigation system. In the one acre plot I am =
seeing much=20
  better resistance to the disease than elsewhere although it is =
probably too=20
  early in the experiment to be sure about anything.&nbsp; I have other =
smaller=20
  experiments in progress with CT as well and I'm reasonably certain it =
is=20
  preventing the rust spores from entering the leaves (If I had =
unlimited funds,=20
  I'd be testing, testing, testing!)</FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As you can imagine, I am very =
disappointed with=20
  their decision. As expected, it was made by bureaucrats =
who:-</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>know nothing about daylily rust (and =
who have=20
  been "got at" by my competors?),</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>have not discussed my experimental =
program with=20
  me,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>have not been in touch with the plant =

  pathologists in the USA who are doing research, </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and who have forgotten that I had =
already sent=20
  approx. 20,000 plants to clients in their State just prior to the =
detection of=20
  rust in my nursery. In other words,  "the horse had well and truly=20
  bolted"</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This is one law I feel sorely tempted =
to break=20
  but I shall think of something before Monday when i shall confront our =
State=20
  authorities. Why don't i use chemicals?&nbsp; I am an organic farmer =
and there=20
  is a condition in the lease of this land that no chemicals are to be =
used.=20
  </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Scott</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT=20
size=3D2><BR>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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