[CC-Jordan] Comments on CCPL Jordanian Arabic License

Ahmad Gharbeia gharbeia عند gmail.com
الجمعة أكتوبر 10 14:18:49 EDT 2008


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رسالة Rami Olwan في 10/10/08 17:46:
> Dear Ahmad Gharbeia, 


> Many thanks for your interest in the CC Jordan project. We need many reviewers like you who have specific comments about the license and its translation. I am sorry I cannot reply in Arabic since my keyboard is in Latin characters. I have read your comments and I believe some of them are quite important. I am not going to go into detail now, but will give a general answer to stimulate the discussion further until we provide detailed specific answer on each comment you have raised if we deem that is necessary. 

It's my pleasure. I've been interested in the license for years and I'm
glad to Jordanians undertaking this effort to ease the way for other
Arab initiatives to follow.


> As for the title of the license, it is true that we have mixed between the license itself and the legal code. We have tried to find a proper translation for both of them, but unfortunately we did not find a proper translation for “legal code” as there is no proper terminology in Arabic, that is why we decided to join the words to make things clear. I agree with your comment that we should stick to the translation of “creative commons license”, and find words that give the linguistic and legal meaning to “legal code” if that is possible.

Great.
Doesn't "صيغة قانونية" denote "legal code"?
I'm not asserting, but rather hinting.
What's the term used in legislative environments to refer to a مشروع
قانون and its drafted "code"?


> The translation to Arabic of “creative commons” is a more controversial matter. One suggestion that we should follow the translation of Arabic wikipedia that uses the terms “omameyat” rather than “mashaa” that we used in the Jordanian CCPL Arabic license. I think that we are not obliged to follow what has been used earlier for "creative commons" in the Arabic wikipedia since it is just a suggestion, and there is no official translation of the word, furthermore our job is mainly to find proper wording that give the needed legal meaning in Arabic.  

Controversial indeed. It's been the main point of discussion for long.
I find the translation of Wikipedia holding no authority. We'll update
Wikipedia once an Arabic license is formally published.


> I suggest to stick with “mashaa” since legally speaking the law does not recognize the concept of “omameyat” and it sound weird, but the word “mashaa” is known and found in legal writings especially property law. Jordanian and Arab legal scholars use the term “mashaa” for air and water and the idea of creative commons “tragedy of the commons” in western legal writings was taken from that as well, but of course its application in the context of information commons and creative commons is not found still in any Arabic legal writings.  

I agree with you that مشاع as used in the contexts of natural resources
and property could be the most suitable. I personally prefer it to
عموميات but I leave the legal debate to those who are more knowledgeable.


> One thing that I have to emphasis is that we have tried to follow the original language of the Jordanian Copyright Law as much as possible as the main aim of the localizing process is to make the American CCPL license enforceable when brought before a Jordanian Court and a judge who is familiar primarily with Jordanian Laws.

Agreed. This is the purpose of "porting".
One comment though: I'm assuming that you started from the "unported"
version of the license, right? The one worded in accordance wit IP
treaties, not the "US" version which is localised to USA jurisdiction.


> For that reason, the terminology and definitions used resemble entirely the Jordanian Copyright Law; that is applicable on the legal word “collection” and many other words that their exact translation from English to Arabic may lead otherwise, but our guide is the Jordanian law itself and nothing else.

Naturally. No one is proposing literal translations. Yet some
translations may be more suitable than others, depending on many factors
as you mentioned above.


> As for your other linguistic comments, I think they should be studied carefully. Ziad will provide in due course a detailed response to each one of them. Please feel free to comments on any of the above and provide us with your further comments if that is possible. We look forward to hearing from you or any other interested reviewer. Thanks everybody for your support.

Law is a language-construct. Its all about words, no?

Regards,
Ahmad Gharbeia

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