[cc-community] Use of CC Images in a photo gallery
drew Roberts
zotz at 100jamz.com
Fri Jun 26 08:34:16 EDT 2009
On Friday 26 June 2009 07:45:10 shell_layer-creativecommons at yahoo.com.au
wrote:
> A book can have different copyright arrangements to the individual
> components of it.
>
> If we assume (for the sake of argument) that a book containing BY-SA images
> is a collection, not an adaptation, and you produce such a book, but you
> don't license it as BY-SA, you still have to license the images BY-SA.
>
> People aren't free to copy your book - the text, etc - but you must grant
> them full BY-SA permission to copy and reuse the images.
>
> If the book isn't considered to be an adaptation, then that sounds fair to
> me.
>
> Eliminating the 'collection' vs 'adaptation' distinction would be a Bad
> Thing,
This distinction does not need to be eliminated.
You could:
1. kick off the SA clause for all derivatives.
2. kick off the SA clause where the "container" (collection, etc.) gets
copyright protection.
3. don't kick off the SA clause where the "container" (collection, etc.)
doesn't get copyright protection.
> because although SA is good, it makes reuse - and especially
> combination - more complex and difficult. You couldn't, for example, gather
> and publish a gallery of CC images, noting the licence of each one, if SA
> demanded that the whole gallery and everything in it be licensed SA. Even
> keeping a mixture of, say, BY-SA photos and GNU FDL photos in one folder on
> your hard drive might be considered a collection, and should not be subject
> to SA.
And to fix that problem all you would need is for such "collections" not to
get copyright protection. Right?
And where there was copyright protection for the "container" getting
permission should prove no more difficult than getting permission to use an
ARR photo or any of the NC photos in a for profit book. This difficulty has
not stopped cc from putting out the NC licenses.
I *want* my BY-SA licensed works to be easier to use and more profitable for
those who are also making BY-SA works than for those making ARR or some
non-BY-SA licensed works. I *want* to give the Free and copyleft folks an
*advantage* over the non-Free folks.
>
> Carl
all the best,
drew
>
> --- On Fri, 26/6/09, Gisle Hannemyr <gisle at ifi.uio.no> wrote:
> > From: Gisle Hannemyr <gisle at ifi.uio.no>
> > Subject: Re: [cc-community] Use of CC Images in a photo gallery
> > To: cc-community at lists.ibiblio.org
> > Received: Friday, 26 June, 2009, 10:10 AM
> > On 24.06.2009 23:43, drew Roberts
> >
> > wrote:
> > > On Wednesday 24 June 2009 14:54:18 Paul Houle wrote:
> > >> I could use CC-BY-SA images in a book I
> >
> > publish, grant no CC-BY-SA
> >
> > >> rights to the readers, maybe just put a note
> >
> > in saying that they're
> >
> > >> welcome to use the CC-BY-SA images... That's
> >
> > wrong.
> >
> > No. That's right.
> >
> > > From all prior discussions here, to my understanding,
> >
> > that's how
> >
> > > it stands now
> >
> > Correct.
> >
> > > and I don't like it.
> > >
> > > I have offered a possible solution but am willing to
> >
> > hear others
> >
> > > and reasons why my proposed solution can't / shouldn't
> >
> > fly.
> >
> > > My suggestion for a couple of years now is to drop
> >
> > this derivative
> >
> > > versus collection distinction and speak of a
> >
> > derivative or a work
> >
> > > "containing" the by-sa work that also gets a copyright
> >
> > and to
> >
> > > have the by-sa have to apply to that "containing"
> >
> > work.
> >
> > This has been discussed to death in the past, but here are
> > my
> > main objections again:
> >
> > 1. The derivative vs. collection distinction is not
> > invented by
> > CC. It is embedded in the Berne Convention Article
> > 2(3) and (5)
> > and therefore also in the national law of all signature
> > nations.
> >
> > To drop the derivative versus collection distinction will
> > make
> > CC non-compliant with the Berne convention. This a very
> > bad
> > idea, as the Berne convention is (IMHO) a very sensible
> > and widely recognised framework for copyright.
> >
> > Also, breaking with the Berne convention will certainly
> > increase
> > the scepticism towards CC in Europe, and provide the now
> > mariginal
> > pundits that argue that CC is an evil US plot to destroy
> > /droit d'auteur/ as we know with a lot of substance to
> > their
> > argument.
> >
> > 2. It will not work out well in practice. It will by
> > a single
> > stroke make all the SA-licences violently viral. I
> > understand
> > that Paul Houle and you hopes that by making them so, the
> > viral properties of SA will automatically spread CC far
> > and
> > wide.
> >
> > The real effect, in all likelyhood, will be the opposite:
> > If the mere act of using a CC BY-SA image forces authors
> > to
> > put their /own/ original and unmodified work under CC
> > BY-SA,
> > many authors would prefer to source their illustrations
> > elsewhere.
> >
> > 3. Your proposed change will be very problematic,
> > definition-wise.
> > The distinction between a derivative and collection is in
> > most
> > cases very clear: You modify it - it's derivative.
> > You just
> > include it without changing it - it's a collection.
> > (Syncing
> > music and images is a borderline case, and the
> > clarification
> > in the license is a natural one that follows from case
> > law.)
> >
> > How do you propose to define "containing work"? For
> > example,
> > if I use a CC BY-SA image to illustrate an article in a
> > newspaper,
> > is the "containing work" that is supposted to be affected
> > by the
> > viral properties of the license the article, the page, the
> > section of the newspaper containing the image, or the
> > entire
> > edition of the newspaper? IAnd if we look at
> > composite or
> > hyperlinked media, it becomes even more difficult to draw
> > up
> > the lines that constrains the "containing work".
> > --
> > - gisle hannemyr [ gisle{at}hannemyr.no - http://folk.uio.no/gisle/ ]
> > ========================================================================
> > "Don't follow leaders // Watch the parkin'
> > meters" - Bob Dylan
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