[cc-community] FYI: comment by Eric S Raymond on CC
andrewrens at gmail.com
Fri Feb 15 17:10:31 EST 2008
> > ### On the contrary an implied licence is needed according to the very
> > logic, since how else can someone read the NC licence other than by
> > downloading the site?
> By putting the notice on the front page that is licensed ARR or something
> non-NC and having a click through if you agree to the NC terms.
@@@ So in that case the issue is not actually the NC licence but the
condition imposed by the access page, since a similar situation occur where
someone has an access page which makes people register to see the rest of
the site. Some rather sad examples of such behaviour exist with the NY Times
I often run into sites that have a TOS and tell you to get lost if you don't
@@@ Which demonstrates that the TOS can't bind you until at least have a
chance to read them because you download the site them since you must only
get lost after you read them and don't agree.
> Only after downloading the site can the reader be
> > aware of what licensing terms the site purports to apply to specific
> > So an implied licence is needed.
> > There is an additional problem raised by the argument that a specific
> > licence eliminates the need for an implied licence. A website which bore
> > link to a copyright notice which stated "you may not read this website
> > without obtaining specific permission first" could also claim to grant a
> > specific licence, not to require an implied licence and thus to prohibit
> > reading. However requiring specific permission for copying and thus
> > is meant by "all rights reserved".
> > Therefore if implied licences are the basis for reading websites then
> > must be an implied licence to browse the site, whatever the copyright
> > of the site.
> ?? I am not sure I wollow that. Why must there be an implied license when
> there is an explitit one?
@@@ What makes "all rights reserved" which is simply another way of saying
"you must negotiate specific permission with me to do anything, including
copy" not explicit?
It is explicit on what you may do with the contents of the website i.e.
In addition to the explicit terms there must be for the reasons which we
have set an implied licence. (if we accept that theory rather than the other
two). If an implied licence can exist alongside those explicit terms then it
can exist alongside NC.
An implied license is needed because otherwise no one would be able to see
> site and hence why is it put on the web.
> With an explicit license, we know why it is on the web... It is there for
But if there is no access page then we don't know why it is on the web until
after we've copied it in order to read it, because we don't know what
licence applies until we read it.
(Look, just be to clear, I have no intention of putting up an NC web site.
> BY-SA perhaps, but not NC. That said, It was someone on list who first
> me things along this line when I asked a question about it. Similarly, I
> basically told I was a fool a while back for thinking that it might be
> possible for a for profit coproration to make proper use of an NC work and
> possibly do things that were not directed towards a profit.
@@@ I certainly don't think you are foolish for saying what you said on this
well so far anyway ;)
@@@ I don't think NC is that difficult except in marginal cases, .
> And also just to be clear, this is more than just a theoritical issue with
> And also why I then asked about downloading a linked to pdf file that was
> licensed NC when the downloader is a for profit corporation.
@@@ But is the downloader a for profit corporation of simply using the
facilities of a for profit corporation?
Is the intent of the project to make a profit?
I am facing that issue right now with a project I am semi involved in. A GPL
> program that has an NC manual.
@@@ Does someone want to carry out a research project on difficulties
encountered due to NC restrictions?
Now blogging at www.aliquidnovi.org
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