[cc-community] Copyright enforcement and CC BY-NC licenses
drew Roberts
zotz at 100jamz.com
Tue Aug 5 20:31:24 EDT 2008
On Tuesday 05 August 2008 19:27:05 Kevin Phillips (home) wrote:
> Hey Terry,
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Terry Hancock" <hancock at anansispaceworks.com>
> To: <cc-community at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 9:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [cc-community] Copyright enforcement and CC BY-NC licenses
>
> > Kevin Phillips (home) wrote:
> >> No, I don't object to it. We were talking about irony, and the irony of
> >> the
> >> NC license being setup to support a very commercial set of procedures
> >> and organisations. None of the other licenses (including arguably the
> >> most "commercial" BY) have been made "compatible with collecting
> >> societies", only
> >> NC.
> >
snip
>
> There's a whole world of NC licensed music out there now, the cats
> out of the bag and as Drew mentioned in his response many of the
> top tier CC music sites are responsible.
>
> This is part-way understandable, as ccMixter for instance was from the
> off a site to encourage the remixing of songs via competitions, seeded
> from the commercial world. The site has since taken many twists and
> turns, some of which are encouragingly towards self-seeded
> source material. This is what I'm personally interested in, I don't care
> so much for the remix competitions but enjoy nothing more than remixing
> other community member submissions and being remixed in return.
>
> The NC license really has no place in the latter context.
I perhaps wasn't at ccMixter from the very beginning, but I know at a time
that I think was fairly early, they took a decision that they wanted all
content on the site to be remixable with all other content on the site.
They could go with BY and BY-NC like they did.
They could go with BY and BY-NC-SA which lately I think I would prefer and I
can't see any way it would harm the path they have chosen.
They could go with BY and BY-SA which I hope they do some day with a Free
Mixter site.
You can't have BY, BY-SA and BY-NC all on the same site and meet the goal of
having all bits remixable with all other bits on the site.
>
snip
>
> Right, and that's what I was getting at with the ccMixter situation. Where
> a mix has been community seeded, remixed, remixed again and again....why
> is the default for that mix NC? SA is a much more suitable license for
> that kind of work.
Yup, but then the goal of all bits being mixable with all other bits on the
site would be out the window.
>
> >> Meantime an amateur musicians could chose BY-NC with the waiver intact,
> >> because she's not signed up to a CS and she doesn't want commercial
> >> uses.
> >
> > Unless by "amateur" you really mean "semi-pro", I don't see why they'd
> > want to use By-NC in the first place. Bottom line: unless you're trying
> > to get revenue from selling the work, By-SA is a better option for
> > keeping the work "free".
>
> They wouldn't normally chose it if they were more clued-up or given more
> choice.
> To become more clued-up there needs to be a push from the inside,
> from CC itself.
Any hope of this?
> Same for choices. When an amateur who does not have
> CS affiliation posts original work on a site like ccMixter they look at the
> license choices and there's no SA license to choose, so they pick NC.
And so have I while putting a BY-SA copy of the work on the internet archive
and pointing to the alternate license version on the ccMixter site. It is the
best I could figure out how to do and work on the Mixter in a way I am
comfortably comfortable.
This leads to an odd paradox... I only look for BY works to work with on the
site but don't want to release my works as BY. I don't feel great about this
situation but I will see how things go.
>
> My guess is that many of the musicians on ccM don't even know about SA,
> let alone understand the difference. There seriously needs to be some kind
> of informational drive, to push out some knowledge into the community.
Hey, I was just told that oog vorbis files were not appreciated and that the
Mixter was an mp3 community. I pointed to the mp3's that the archive makes
from the flacs I put up there.
>
> >> Bingo. I'd love to use SA all the time, but some web sites don't
> >> support it
> >> so I take what's offered.
Yup. I am working on a related list (income ideas for a band using BY-SA):
http://packet-in.org/wiki/index.php?title=Income
Just added a Kompoz link after seeing your reminder below.
> >> A lot of musicians don't get the concept of
> >> SA,
> >> so they choose NC thinking it will stop corporates nicking their music.
> >> If I
> >> want to remix music the majority of stuff is NC.
> >
> > Both of those are severe social ills, and should (IMHO) be fought.
>
> 'fraid so.
>
> > Boycott those NC-only sites. Use the ones which permit free licensing
> > instead. We need to support the people who support us.
>
> I could, but then I'd have limited scope for remixers. Kompoz started
> offering
> SA a little while back, so my next couple of projects will be posted there.
>
> That doesn't help my friends on ccM though. And suggesting they jump
> ship to another site, well, I'd sooner walk the plank :D
>
> > As for musicians not understanding the licenses they pick for their own
> > works, shame on them! Get educated.
>
> Actually, I think it's more like :
> The poster child of CC, ccMixter rejects SA licenses....shame on them.
Well, I would be happy if they just offered a parallel Free Mixter until.
> Musicians fail to get CC's garbled messages.....shame on those garblers.
>
> It seems like the only way to really undestand all the options and
> licenses, and the subtlety therein, is to read this mailing list!
> ....heaven help us
We also need to reach a Free and copyleft critical mass. Lots start using GPL
software because there is a lot of it and the success of it is evident. We
are not anywhere there yet with BY-SA music. Plus, there is a legal end run
around BY-SA licensed music that the big boys can avail themselves of which
does not exits for GPL software.
I just remembered to add the fix for this to my 'Some thoughts on a "Copyright
Offensive"' post here:
http://zotzbro.blogspot.com/2007/04/some-thoughts-on-copyright-offensive.html
>
> :)
Kev, if you find you can do something with some of my stuff on the Mixter,
please do and reviews would also be welcome. Do you have links to your stuff
there?
>
> Kev
>
all the best,
drew
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