[cc-community] Copyright enforcement and CC BY-NC licenses

drew Roberts zotz at 100jamz.com
Mon Aug 4 16:33:54 EDT 2008


On Monday 04 August 2008 14:51:16 jonathon wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 05:38, drew Roberts  wrote:
> >> The club I used to hang out at had a US$10.00 cover charge.
> >
> > But they are unrelated, right? You did indicate that the venue pays.
>
> I was using the amount the band earned, as an indication of how much
> the collecting socieites claim.

Yup, I figured as much, just trying to confirm.
>
> >> Here is the way one club owner explained the costs to me.
> >> Have a "three drink minimum".
> >> * The first drink goes to the collecting society;
> >> * The second drink is split between the various licensing authorities,
> >> and the band;
> >
> > So the band gets the door and a part of the second drink?
>
> Advertising that the band is playing at the venue.  All food and
> beverages that the band consumes.
> I've forgotten the other expenses that get chalked up as "the band".
> These are deducted from beverage sales.  The band gets none of the
> beverage revenue.  (There is one exception.  If there is no cover
> charge, then the performance fee for the band is also charged here.)
>
> > Anyone know more about how these things work?
> >
> > What about on nights when no band plays?
>
> Assuming neither a DJ, nor a live band, then those nights have less
> revenue. As a percentage of gross revenue, net profit is higher.
>
> >Are the fees different for live versus non-live music?
>
> Different collecting societies.

Really? I think down here it is PRS no matter what type of music. What are the 
different societies there by type of music?
>
> >How does that jukebox game I dimly remember work if it still does?
>
> It is much easier to "control" collection society payments with a
> jukebox, than with either a DJ, or a live band.

I thought at one time, in the US, jukebox music enjoyed some sort of royalty 
exemption going way back to early days. That was the game I was referring to.
>
> For starters, the play list won't be changed, unless you change it.
> How frequently the songs are played is something you can't control.
> (Most jukeboxes provide information on how frequently a specific
> selection is played.)
>
> > Actually, if I understood this bit properly, the automatic parts only
> > apply to non-dramatic music / audio? You can't take advantage of this for
> > dramatic musical works from what I understood.
>
> If you want to use the songs "Acid Queen", "Pinball Wizard", and
> "Tommy can you hear me?", in your work, you pay royalties to one
> collection society --- I've forgotten which one --- and go on your
> way. They do not have the right to deny you permission.

Is this only if the songs have already been released outside of the rock 
opera?
>
> If you want to perform "Tommy: The Rock Opera", you get to pay
> royalties to a different collection society. This one has the right to
> deny you permission.
>
> If you want to make a movie version of "Tommy: The Rock Opera", you
> talk to a different collection society.  This one also has the right
> to deny permission.
>
> If you want to release "Tommy: The Rock Opera" as an audio book, you
> talk to yet another collection society.   This one also has the right
> to deny permission.
>
> If you want to release "Tommy:The Rock Opera", as a talking book, you
> can do so, without obtaining permission from anybody, or paying any
> royalties, if the appropriate box on the copyright form is checked.
> (There are some restrictions on how it can be distributed.)

Amazing isn't it?
>
> >> For audio media, it is a predetermined amount.
> >
> > Actually, I think even here you can negotiate better terms than the law
> > requires and I always understood that the big boys at least generally do.
>
> You need a fairly large catalog, and good lawyers, for that
> negotiation to be cost effective.

Just a little benefit for the big boys I guess.

We never did finish up with how a person can collect royalties on a work that 
they use and build upon under someone else's NC license without running afoul 
of the NC license.

I think, if I understand you correctly, you are telling how they can do this 
with a statutory license, effectively sidestepping the whole cc licensing 
scheme completely.

For instance, say I write and perform and release a song and put it under cc 
BY-sa or BY-NC-SA, can't someong coma long and record a cover and make use of 
the statutory license and keep their cover recording ARR and not license it 
under wither cc "SA" license at all?
>
> xan
>
> jonathon

all the best,

drew




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