[cc-community] Are Jocks Smarter The Creatives? was: Re: Rcrd Lbl to offer CC and Free as in Beer Music

drew Roberts zotz at 100jamz.com
Sun Nov 18 13:09:47 EST 2007


On Sunday 18 November 2007 12:23:48 Aaron Shaw wrote:
> What's interesting to me about Drew's analogy is that professional athletes
> only receive a greater portion of league profits as a result of protracted
> labor organizing efforts that began in the 1970's (look up "Curt Flood" if
> you want to learn more).

And the wierd thing is that I am not a big fan of unions and organized labour 
in the way thet I see them operating. I also am not a fan of business owners 
who operate in such a way as to make them way too often a necessity.

Some of the things I don't like are the adversarial stance they seem to want 
to take even where unnecessary, the lack of recognition of the realities of 
business. (For instance expecting the owner to make less on his investment 
that he would get in a nice safe CD...) 

I really don't like to see these crazily paid athletes go on strike while 
living large. As a fan, they lose me when they pull that...
>
> This organizing was, in part, a possibility because owners and the public
> were willing to concede that what athletes did for a living looked and felt
> a lot like physical labor.Professional athletes thus cashed in on the
> legitimacy of organized labor at a time when a blue collar image was
> actually a political advantage in the U.S!

There is a musicians union in my country. (At least one, I don't know the 
details.)
>
> Since then, it's amazing how much more effective the players' unions have
> been than the AFL-CIO at protecting the wages, rights, and image of their
> members. Too bad the creative industries didn't have a Curt Flood way back
> then - we might be looking at a very different situation.

One problems unions have from my perspective is their willingness to punish 
the customer or public in their efforts to better theri situation...

That is brain dead from my perspective.
>
> This history clarifies two challenges for those of us who would argue that
> "creatives" deserve a share of the profits generated through their
> industry:
>
>
> (1) Hollywood writers' strike notwithstanding, the image of organized labor
> in the U.S. ain't what it used to be. Also, I would bet that many people
> think "creative work" is a contradiction in terms. 

Ask them to take part in NaNoWriMo next year and to put their book online day 
by day with a CC BY-SA license. After the month is out, ask them if it ever 
felt like work...

Here's mine from this year:

http://dangernovel.blogspot.com/
Danger - A Safe Bahamian Novel

I cantell you, it has felt like serious work on more than one occasion...

> Therefore, while CC 
> licenses have unquestionably provided an invaluable tool for resisting the
> corporate control of the culture industry, a lot more public relations work
> remains to be done before the phrase "organized cultural workers" inspires
> people to imagine anything other than a some anachronistic soviet
> bureaucracy.
>
> (2) If creative workers do want to unite, they face an uphill battle
> insofar as labor power around the world is not exactly at an all time high.
> For example, union membership in the United States has not been as low as
> it is now since the early 20th century. 

This is where Free Copyleft licenses allow for disorganized organization or 
disorganized unity... In the early days of CC, I had high hopes that the pool 
of world wide works under such licenses would ramp up quickly. Not now, but I 
still harbour hopes for long term sucecss in this area.

> That said, some unions are seeing 
> growth. Generally speaking, they are the unions that organize foreign-born
> service workers or well-educated workers such as teachers and nurses. It is
> possible that "creatives" represent a population that is similarly
> "organizable;" however, in their case, the nature of the culture industry
> is such that it would pose very different challenges than those faced by
> LA's janitors. Any industry where the products of labor have been digitized
> and can be reproduced for a few ¢'s is inherently quite different than one
> where employees must show up at a worksite each day for a given number of
> hours. Nevertheless, is it possible to imagine a day when writers,
> musicians, actors, artists, performers, bloggers, and free-software coders
> find common political interests with the SEIU (Service Employee's
> International Union)? I would like to think so.

I am not sure why an average union member should trust that the union's 
government would be looking out for them any more than a citizen should trust 
that the country's government is looking out for them...

> To stick with the example 
> of southern California, many of these folks are probably already voting for
> labor candidates (Villaraigosa??) and these votes could create more
> tangible political impact with the right kinds of organizational pressure.
>
> What would Disney do the day its janitors *and *its creative talent walked
> out?

What would Disney do if creatives refused to do work for hire and insisted on 
using Free Copyleft licenses?
>
>
> -Aaron

all the best,

drew

>
> On Nov 18, 2007 4:55 AM, drew Roberts <zotz at 100jamz.com> wrote:
> > On Sunday 18 November 2007 03:12:01 Lucas Gonze wrote:
> > > On Nov 17, 2007 8:37 PM, drew Roberts <zotz at 100jamz.com> wrote:
> > > > so much of the trouble musicians would face with
> > > > copyright is actually unloaded onto others.
> > > >
> > > > For instance, a cover band plays in a club. The band is playing
> >
> > someone
> >
> > > > else's music. Are they responsible for paying the royalties? No, the
> >
> > club
> >
> > > > owner is.
> > >
> > > And how.  Nicely said, brother.
> > >
> > > > If musicians actually had to deal with this copyright mess directly,
> >
> > it
> >
> > > > may be more clear to more of them that the laws were not passed with
> > > > their rights and welfare in mind.
> > >
> > > Most musicians are way too earthy to think about copyright.  It's not
> > > a plausible topic.  And the music business as a whole reflects this
> > > culture.
> >
> > To the benefit of the suits and the disadvantage of the artists?
> >
> > Are jocks smarter than creatives? (Purposefully Provicative Tabloid Type
> > Headline!)
> >
> > What percentage of revenue (and income)  do jocks get from their leagues?
> >
> > NFL?
> > MLB?
> > NBA?
> > NHL?
> >
> > To name some US ones.
> >
> > Soccer leagues in Europe?
> >
> > What percentage of their industry do creatives get?
> >
> > Authors?
> > Song Writers? (lyrics and melody)
> > Screen Writers?
> > Actors?
> >
> >
> > all the best,
> >
> > drew
> >
> >
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>
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