[cc-community] Strayform - where artists and fans connecttofund and distribute new creative works

Ujjwal Grover ujj at tempostand.com
Sun May 20 16:18:32 EDT 2007


Hi,

Paying for the bands expenses is like giving an incubation. Its a one time
thing (or two time) until the band begins to make ends meet, but only if it
is done by a firm/company, the whole stock market thing, doesnt appeal to me
as much. The company can do all the management work for the band, get
concerts, design merchandise, sell stuff etc. Profit sharing being the
underlying business model. Like Drew said, the fans are in any way paying
thro CDs and downloads, concerts, Ts etc.

BY-SA allows remixing so that people can work over your music to create
their own and still use it for commercial purposes. But for that they will
need a platform for distribution and if you are one, you should be happy
about it. So for me BY-SA is the best choice for digi music.

A social networking site can connect the fans to artists and it can do more
than that. It can connect music enthusiasts with artists. It can bring forth
a community of music reviewers, people who will explore music and in effect
get more stuff for your venture.
Well thats a thing I hope.

Cheers,

Ujjwal



> > >
> > > I've looked into several possibilities here in the UK.  There's a
> number
> of
> > > projects which gain government funding for "charitable work", or
> "community
> > > work" which benefits others at reduced or no cost.  We have a
> community
> > > studio locally for instance, I could record stuff there cheaply, or
> > > continue to do as I do now and record stuff in my own home setup.  I'm
> not
> > > sure if a band could run as a registered charity, though it's an
> > > interesting concept ;)
> >
> > That is an idea. Pay expenses of band, including band members, roadies,
> etc.
> > salaries. Release the music under a Free (and in my book, copyleft)
> license.
> > This is certainly a benefit to the public.
>
> Yes.  The only drawback I can see is that it's no longer "charitable" when
> they are fed back into the commercial ticketing system, you'd have to
> create
> some kind of not-for-profit deriv.  Renders the whole thing a bit of a
> non-starter.  Though having said that they could do "free" concerts and
> bring along the t-shirts and the merch......who knows.




> >
> > > > > Historically, bundled into the
> > > > > cost of each CD or book is the cost of production and
> > > > > distribution.  But now with the internet distribution is
> > > > > nearly costless.  Let
> > > > > 's move the payment forward to the point of creation.
> > > >
> > > > That is one option. Worth an experiment in my book.
> > >
> > > There's a band called The Crimea who are doing something like this
> already,
> > > they offer the CD for those folks who want something tangible (or high
> > > quality), but also offer their latest album for download completely
> free
> of
> > > charge.
> >
> > I am more concerned with a Free license myself, rather than free of
> charge.
>
> Yeah, that's a shame.  To be honest I'm not entirely convinced they're
> aware
> of the options, otherwise they may have opted for something more open.
> Reading their occasional interviews and posts they seem keen to duck out
> of
> the traditional systems.  I was also encouraged recently by something Thom
> York said about wanting to do something similar in Time Magazine.
>
> Should CC have some kind of lobbying group to stalk these artists? lol :)

> >
> > > http://www.thecrimea.net/
> > >
> > > They're smart enough to realise it'll benefit them in the longrun, as
> far
> > > as gigs and promotion goes.  Much like the Chinese situation.
> >
> > Even with a Free license, you could charge for gigs and merchandise,
> etc.
> > >
> > > > > Recording companies pay artists upfront to create
> > > > > something new and then charge the consumers per copy; let
> > > > > 's have fans pay the artists directly and give them the
> > > > > freedom to use and share.  They will use this freedom to
> > > > > distribute and promote, providing a valuable service to
> > > > > artists.  The end result would be lower total costs, more
> > > > > freedom and control for artists and consumers, and new
> > > > > communities with strong ties between artists and fans.
> > >
> > > Fans do pay the artists directly, every time they turn up to a gig or
> buy a
> > > t-shirt, or a high-def DVD surround sound limited edition recording.
> > > There's no reason for the fans to pay for recordings anymore, as The
> Crimea
> > > point out.
> >
> > The thing is, if the music came with a Free license and I liked, I would
> > happily pay the band for a CD. (Actually, I have been thinking recently
> that
> > it might be a nice twist to go back to the "album format" for delivery
> of
> > CDs. Basically, album size, materials, posters, lyrics, etc. with a CD
> inside
> > instead of vinyl. Is it clear what I mean here?)
>
> Yes.  That's exactly the kind of thing I'd love to see, and I agree, I'd
> happily pay good money for something like that.  I think one of the issues
> with CDs is that the price remained fixed whilst the "costs" bottomed out.
> Most music lovers and consumers are well aware of the costs now,
> especially
> as daily newspapers include "free" CDs and DVDs whilst still paying dues
> to
> the artists and creators.  It's difficult to convince people to pay for
> data
> I guess.
>
> So it's the additional and exclusive things people expect to pay more for,
> the physical things they can touch, wear or play with.  I kept my old
> vinyl
> because some of the artwork is simply iconic, awesome stuff from the 70s
> and
> 80s.  I was thinking of framing some of those old album covers.
>
> It'd be great to bring back that sense of ownership, the internet is a
> great
> place for things like fanclubs and fan-feedback, though we're not seeing
> so
> much of that just yet - beyond myspace..

> > The costs associated with writing and recording are a fraction
> > > of what they used to be, and the opportunities for the band to claw
> back
> > > the investment with merchandising and in the commercial space are
> massive.
> > >
> > > > > – The Site –
> > > > >
> > > > > With actualizing this vision in mind, I created
> > > > > www.strayform.com.  It works like a social network for
> > > > > artist and fans with specialized features to promote,
> > > > > fund, and distribute new media.  A library of CC licensed
> > > > > media leads to you to discover new artists.  Becoming fans
> > > > > of these artists and selecting media as one of your
> > > > > favorites allows us to rank and provide recommendations,
> > > > > while giving you specialized privileges and notifications.
> > > > >  People with similar interests surfing your pages use
> > > > > these connections and find new favorites and artists as
> > > > > well.  These massive connectivity provides a network that
> > > > > funnels interest into Proposals.  Proposals are artists
> > > > > ' offers to create new CC licensed media funded by fans.
> > > >
> > > > Unless htis is for BY and BY-SA works, I am not too interested. To
> me
> the
> > > > works are still mostly gonna be useless and pollution.
> > >
> > > There was another website in the news recently which looked a lot like
> > > yours in concept, I forget the name.  This other website was making a
> song
> > > and dance (almost literally) about their first artist making a CD from
> > > monies pledged by myspace fans.  I say great, whatever works.  Though
> when
> > > they finally make their recording it wasn't clear if they'd then give
> the
> > > recording away for free or start to charge for it.
> >
> > Again, for me, the crux of the matter is not whether they give it away
> or
> > charge for it, it is whether it comes with a Free License.
>
> Agreed.
>
> > >
> > > I've also heard of other schemes where funders are effectively
> investors.
> > > So the whole thing becomes like the stock market with share values for
> > > artists etc.
> >
> > This is effectively no more than a twist on the corporate or partnership
> > model. Unless there is a Free license involved, what is to stop a sell
> out
> in
> > a few years to the majors? (Leaving the majority of fans no better off
> than
> > they are now.)
>
> Again, very much agreed.  I don't like the idea for that reason, it's more
> of the same thing but with the convenience of lower risk by burdoning the
> fans with the setup/recording costs.  A lot of the news repotage talks of
> $50,000+ for recording fees, sounds to me like a studio somewhere is
> making
> a good living out of it!
>
> > >
> > > I would suggest building into your plan somehow the "beyond music"
> strategy
> > > of the Chinese, so artists using your site don't expect to make money
> from
> > > the fans for the music directly.  There should be something else,
> > > merchandising or signed pictures or whatever.
> >
> > That is one option, but I think setting a price at which you will
> release
> a
> > track with a Free license (say CC BY-SA for the sake of argument) is
> worth
> an
> > experiment. If I can get some people together willing to record this
> way,
> I
> > will run some experiments along these lines.
>
> Yeah, what's kinda happening is the music industry in China is accepting
> their fate of every release being BY-ND :)  I agree, removing the ND and
> replacing it with an SA would be an interesting experiment.
>
> If you ever start this, count me in ;)
>
> Kev
>
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>



-- 
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