[cc-community] ASCAP VS CREATIVE COMMONS

Bjorn Wijers mailings at bdisfunctional.net
Fri Dec 22 05:35:43 EST 2006


Thanks for clearing that up.

tomislav medak wrote:
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> All Rights Reserved
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> Bjorn Wijers wrote:
>> Excuse me, but could someone explain what the acronym ARR stands for?
>>
>> drew Roberts wrote:
>>> I have been pondering the possibilities of putting BY-SA works up with 
>>> collection agencies for a whaile now.
>>>
>>> Would it be possible for the CC licenses to have a clause that states that if 
>>> you use the work and the work is with a collection agency, then you can 
>>> either pay as per your agreement, or you must make individual exemption 
>>> claims for each use? Assuming you are an entity wich would need an agreement 
>>> with said agency.
>>>
>>> The example I am thinking of is a radio station that plays ARR and CC works. 
>>> They can frget the hassle and pay to use the Free works, or they can report 
>>> the individual uses and claim an exemption for them? Something like that.
>>>
>>> I haven't thought this all through yet, but it seems like a decent time to 
>>> bring up the thought for people to discuss / chew on.
>>>
>>> Of course, this would only apply to BY and BY-SA works with respect to 
>>> commercial uses.
>>>
>>> all the best,
>>>
>>> drew
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday 21 December 2006 09:20 am, Fred Benenson wrote:
>>>> Fascinating. Such Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt here.
>>>>
>>>> ASCAP seems to be missing the point that Creative Commons builds on top of
>>>> copyright, and while Lessig's books are copyrighted, so is virtually every
>>>> other cc-licensed object. All it does is explicitly define what rights the
>>>> artists are looking to preserve beyond copyright.
>>>>
>>>> Another piece of FUD here: conflating "music" (one track) with "music"
>>>> (your oeuvre). In other words ASCAP makes it appear that if you decide to
>>>> go for CC once then you must license *all* your work under CC forever. This
>>>> is plainly not the case as cc licenses apply to individual works and they,
>>>> too, are non-exclusive, just like ASCAP claims to be. Which leads to
>>>> another confusing point by ASCAP: it would seem that collecting royalties
>>>> under via ASCAP with a CC licensed track (BY-NC perhaps?)  would be
>>>> something they'd object to, when, as far as I can tell, since they're both
>>>> non-exclusive licenses, it wouldn't be a problem.
>>>>
>>>> Still, interesting that they're resorting to the ole' FUD line then
>>>> anything else. That means we must be doing something right.
>>>>
>>>> F
>>>>
>>>> PS: Can I forward this to the cc-community/cc-licenses list?
>>>>
>>>> On 12/21/06, Elizabeth Stark <estark at law.harvard.edu> wrote:
>>>>>  <-----Original Message----->
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Benjamin Sisto
>>>>>> Sent: 12/20/2006 11:50:25 PM
>>>>>> To:
>>>>>> estark at law.harvard.edu;wilbanks at creativecommons.org;driscollkevin@
>>>>> gmail.com;thwang at fas.harvard.edu;antalliance at gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [POSSIBLE SPAM] ASCAP VS CREATIVE COMMONS
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Round one, fight!
>>>>> >From board.lemmingtrail.com
>>>>>> Hi Benjamin,<-------- (not me, ben sisto..someone else)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ASCAP, BMI and SESAC are all Performing Rights Organizations (PRO's).
>>>>>> The
>>>>> basic
>>>>>
>>>>>> function of all of us is to collect royalties for artists when their
>>>>> music is
>>>>>
>>>>>> performed on the radio, film, TV, internet, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ASCAP is the oldest and strongest PRO in the world. When you join ASCAP,
>>>>> you
>>>>>
>>>>>> join for 1 year terms (meaning you can resign each year if you want).
>>>>> We're a
>>>>>
>>>>>> not for profit company and have the lowest operating costs in the States
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>>> amongst the lowest in the world. When you join, you become a member and
>>>>> have a
>>>>>
>>>>>> say in how we operate. It's free to join and there are never any dues to
>>>>> pay.
>>>>>
>>>>>> These points are NOT all true for either BMI or SESAC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know a lot of bands from Boston like the idea of Creative Commons and
>>>>> aren't
>>>>>
>>>>>> sure how PRO's play into it. Here's what you should know, if you join
>>>>> ASCAP,
>>>>>
>>>>>> it's a nonexclusive agreement. Which means, you tell us if/when you want
>>>>> us to
>>>>>
>>>>>> collect your $. So, if you choose to give your music away for free, just
>>>>> let us
>>>>>
>>>>>> know. It's your music and we want you to do what you want with it. If
>>>>>> you
>>>>> want
>>>>>
>>>>>> us to collect your money, just let us know and we will. So, you really
>>>>> have the
>>>>>
>>>>>> option to choose on your own.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please be aware though, that if you take the route of Creative Commons,
>>>>> there's
>>>>>
>>>>>> no turning back. You have just given away your music for free, forever.
>>>>> You
>>>>>
>>>>>> can't later change your mind and decide you want to make royalties.
>>>>> Creative
>>>>>
>>>>>> Commons is really controversial and so misunderstood by so many that
>>>>>> it's
>>>>> hard
>>>>>
>>>>>> to know exactly what you're getting into. Lawrence Lessig is the man who
>>>>> is
>>>>>
>>>>>> pushing the concept and has written books about the subject, but it's
>>>>>> interesting that his books are copyrighted, published and earn money
>>>>>> just
>>>>> like
>>>>>
>>>>>> songs do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, best of luck on whatever you decide!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> XXXXXXXXXX
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Benjamim Sisto
>>>>>> 617 784 6115
>>>>>> ben.sisto at gmail.com
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