[b-hebrew] words with the same root letters: XCC-N TMR
fournet.arnaud at wanadoo.fr
Mon Jan 17 11:32:23 EST 2011
From: JimStinehart at aol.com
You wrote: “So far I've not seen a single plausibly Hurrian name in what
you keep foraging.”
Genesis 14: 6 says that the XR-Y lived at $‘-YR and ’L P-’R-N. [In that
third name, I am treating the interior yod/Y in the received text as a 1st
millennium BCE addition which purposely changed the original pronunciation,
being designed to avoid a possible blasphemy if ’L referred to El/YHWH.]
1. If XR-Y is not a Hurrian name, then what spelling would you propose for
“Hurrian” in early Biblical Hebrew defective spelling?
It depends on when and through which intermediary the word would have
2. If $‘-YR is not $e-e-ir-ri at Mitanni Letter IV-115 [Amarna Letter EA
24, written in Hurrian], and is not $e-e-ri at Amarna Letter EA 288: 26 from
IR-Heba, the Hurrian princeling ruler of Jerusalem, then what spelling would
you propose for that Hurrian name in early Biblical Hebrew defective
Sherri or Sharri is an Akkadian loanword, which has a Hebrew cognate.
I suppose Hebrew speakers would doubtless recognize that word and write in
the same way as the native Hebrew word.
This example clearly shows the absurdity of your approach which tries to
convert Semitic words into something else at all cost.
IR-Heba as mentioned before is probably a misreading.
That name is in all cases not Hurrian.
3. If ’L P-’R-N is not ali pu-ur-ni, the important festival uniquely
celebrated by the Hurrians, then what spelling would you propose for ali
pu-ur-ni in early Biblical Hebrew defective spelling?
Eli pur-ni is not a festival but means "the sacred house".
If those three names at Genesis 14: 6 reference the historical Hurrians at
places with Hurrian names where the Hurrians historically lived, then the
same is likely true for the next verse of text, Genesis 14: 7.
4. If QD$ at Genesis 14: 7 is not Q-D-$, representing ka-du-u-$a + suffix
at Mit. IV-31 [when not referring, as in later books in the Bible, to a
desert oasis/‘holy spot’ (west Semitic QD$) in the Egyptian-controlled Sinai
Desert or southern wilderness southwest or south of the Dead Sea, where
Hurrians never lived], then what spelling would you propose for ka-du-$a in
early Biblical Hebrew defective spelling?
Obviously not Hurrian because of Q
5. If at Genesis 14: 7 the ‘-ML-Q – Y, as to which HALOT reports at p. 846
“no linguistic explanation possible”, is not composed of the Hurrian words
a-m- + muli + ka, then what is your proposed explanation for the name
Obviously not Hurrian because of Q and (
6. And if XCC-N TMR at Genesis 14: 7 is not xa-tsi-tsi-ni tam-ri in
Hurrian, being Hasi in the Beqa Valley, which per Amarna Letter EA 175 was a
Hurrian-dominated place where Amorites were indeed attacked in Year 14, then
what is your proposed explanation of XCC-N TMR?
I'll let competent people deal with these Semitic words.
7. Abraham calls the ideal place for the early Hebrews to sojourn “heaven”
in Hurrian: xa-vur-e-ne. Isn’t X-BR-W-N the expected early Biblical Hebrew
defective spelling of the Hurrian word “the heaven”? [This has nothing
whatsoever to do with the city of Hebron, whose name in the Amarna Letters
8. In convincing princelings Mamre, Eshkol and Aner to join him in a
dangerous raid into Syria to rescue Lot and Lot’s family, tent-dwelling
Abraham uses the Hurrian word for “lord”, ‘-B-R – Y, to characterize himself
as likewise being a “lord”. Though conventionally transliterated as
“Hebrew”, the root of ‘-B-R – Y is ‘-B-R. Knowing that B and W are
interchangeable in the Hurrian word for “lord”, isn’t that a dead ringer for
e-wi-ir at the Mitanni Letter IV-127-128, meaning “lord” in Hurrian?
We have already discussed a billion times that the word ebri is an Akkadian
Cf. Hebrew )abiYr
9. The Hurrians were supporters of the primeval god Anu, whom they viewed
as having been an ally of the Hurrians’ god Te$up in overthrowing the
intervening primeval god, Kumarbi. A Hurrian supportive of Anu would be
Anu-ra, which is the Hurrian princeling ‘-N-R [“Aner”] at Genesis 14: 13.
10. By extension from #9 above, the mythical pre-Hurrians
I beg your pardon!?
who worshipped Anu [before the days of Te$up in historical times] could
easily have been conceptualized by the early Hebrews as having been Anu-ka,
meaning “the Anu people”. Anu-ka in Hurrian comes out as ‘-N-Q at Numbers
13: 22, where Talmai/TLMY is one of the ‘-N-Q. Talmi in Hurrian means
“great, big”. At Joshua 15: 13 ’RB‘ is one of the ‘-N-Q. ’RB‘ in Hurrian
means “lord”. On that basis, QRYT ’RB‘ at Genesis 23: 2 and QRYT H-’RB‘ at
Genesis 35: 27 mean, with the root word being Hurrian, “city of the Hurrian
lords”. At Nuzi we find the Hurrian names I-ri-bi-ya, Iribi-lu and
I-ri-bu-ya. In addition, irpi/ir-bi in Amarna Letter EA 289: 38 from
IR-Heba of Jerusalem, meaning “lord”, compares directly to ’RB‘.
You are sinking into complete nonsense.
11. The name of the Hurrian landowning lord at ’RB’ means “lord” in
Hurrian, though without the metathesis [and with P interchanging with B]:
E-pi-ri-e-ne = ‘-P-R-W-N. Compare ip-ri-en-na + additional suffix = “the
kings” at the Mitanni Letter III-48 and III-72. [As to the metathesis
issue, at Amarna Letter EA 289: 38 IR-Heba uses the word irpi (presumably
pronounced ir-bi) regarding an Egyptian official. Yet on three occasions in
Amarna Letter EA 286, IR-Heba uses the term EN-ri (where “EN”, like “IR”, is
a logogram, not an alphabetic rendering), which per Laroche and Moran likely
is ib-ri. We see that the same Hurrian princeling can use both ir-bi (with
metathesis) and ib-ri (no metathesis). Hurrian words with a liquid
consonant (like R) are often subject to metathesis.]
We are already discussed that this is just impossible.
12. Finally, that Hurrian landowner has a father with a Hurrian name, CXR,
at Genesis 23: 8. Compare the Hurrian name Cuxar-tiya at Nuzi, where the
final -tiya is a formative. The consonantal root of this Hurrian name at
Nuzi is CXR.
Obviously not Hurrian because of C.
Just in this one short post, we see 12 names in the Patriarchal narratives
that make perfect sense on a Hurrian analysis as being Hurrian names,
We have already discussed these items half a dozen times and seen they make
no sense, or at least they do not fit in your preconceived ideas.
IMHO it's time you learn some method about how to handle graphic and
phonetic issues, or you will keep moving around the same circle ever and
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