[b-hebrew] shamir

Nir cohen - Prof. Mat. nir at ccet.ufrn.br
Tue Jan 11 23:14:08 EST 2011


david,

i am amazed at the rate at which i am forgetting my mother tongue. 
lack of use, i suppose.

of course below i was referring to DARDAR, not DORBAN. although the
two might be related, and may fit the description, dardar really refers, in  
hebrew, to thorny plants, not dorban.

and the correct expression is kotzin vedardarim...

 can anybody verify if SMR or DORBAN or DARDAR are BH?

see also NA'ATzUTz isa55:13.

nir cohen

 SHAMIR: it makes sense to suggest shamir for brier or similar thorny-head plants in the region, some possibly extinct by now. but there are two problems: 1) the s-->sh transformation. as it happens, SMR for thorny is used in modern hebrew in several ways (samar se'ar rosho, masmer, samur) and none of them with sh. (see below for s<-->sh).2) another possible candidate for brier would be dorban used in the expression"kotzim vedorbanot." also the name for porcupine and for anyinstrument of the same quality used on animals. see the (talmudic?) expression"dvarim ke-dorvanot". can anybody verify if SMR or DORBAN are BH?--------------SHAIT: maybe related with ShTT, i.e. a plant which causes one'sskin to bleed. it might even be the case that "shamir va-shait" is an inseparable idiomatic pair (similar to "shod va-shever") simply characterizing a whole family of plants which are BOTH thorny  (shape) and brewsing (function). see also "kotzim ve-dorbanot" or "shotim ve-akrabi
 m", also used as complete pairs.

2) another possible candidate for brier would be dorban used in the expression"kotzim vedorbanot." also the name for porcupine and for anyinstrument of the same quality used on animals. see the (talmudic?) expression"dvarim ke-dorvanot". 

 



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