[b-hebrew] dagesh, gemination, Hannah
Isaac Fried
if at math.bu.edu
Sat Apr 30 22:24:02 EDT 2011
I am convinced that the LXX occasionally confused the look-alike
Hebrew R and D letters, that they did not read correctly certain
letters, or combination of letters, that they often misunderstood the
meaning of the text, and that they used a corrupt and smudged
original manuscript. So, it is well conceivable that they also
confused the H and the X letters. On the sounding of the ayin, it may
have depended on who they consulted. Occasionally they may have
deemed to hear it as a deep choking sound, which they put down as a
"gayin". Their atrocious treatment of Hebrew names makes
(unfortunately!) their work nigh useless for the study of the ancient
Hebrew speech.
Isaac Fried, Boston University
On Apr 29, 2011, at 8:12 PM, Will Parsons wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Apr 2011 19:27:32 -0400, Isaac Fried <if at math.bu.edu>
> wrote:
>> I am not sure why there is a double n in Phennana, the same way I
>> am not
>> sure why there is a double m and a double t and a double e in the
>> English
>> word committee, yet only one m in coming.
>
> I can't be completely sure abount Phennana, but I don't think it's an
> accident. I mentioned several possibilities in a previous post,
> but what I
> think is most likely is that the form represents a quantitative
> metathesis,
> i.e., the [n]-[n:] sequence was reversed to [n:]-[n], possibly at
> the time
> of transcription, or perhaps afterward.
>
> Why the double m and double t in "committee"? Because this word is
> derived
> from Latin in which the doubled letters represent geminated
> consonants.
> English doesn't have geminated consonants (with certain
> exceptions), but
> keeps the historical spelling (as does French, but as opposed to
> Spanish).
>
>> It is hard to believe, yet the LXX may have confused the look-
>> alike Hebrew
>> letters H and X, as well as R and D (is there any work on the
>> rendering of
>> the Hebrew names by the LXX?). For PIYNXAS of Num. 25:7 they have the
>> curious Φινεες, yet Gen. 11 they "correctly" render NAXOR as
>> Ναχωρ, but
>> ,then, TERAX is suddenly made into Θαρα. Did they see the last
>> X of TERAX
>> as a silent H? The name IRAD עירד of Gen. 4:18 is made into
>> Γαιδαδ.
>
> There is no reason to assume the LXX translators mistook a heth for
> a he.
> Heth apparently had two distinct sounds at the time, neither of
> which prehaps
> corresponded exactly to a Greek sound. The nearest equivalent to
> the lighter
> of the two would be Greek [h], represented by the "rough breathing"
> mark on an
> initial vowel. But the breathing marks were not regularly used,
> and during
> the Hellenistic era the [h] sound was in the process of being
> dropped in
> pronunciation. As a result, in Hebrew names beginning with either
> a he or a
> heth, the Greek forms will show nothing, so "Anna" is expected for
> חנה.
>
> The double pronunciation of both heth and ayin has been discussed
> on this
> list before. The results as far as LXX transcriptions are usually:
>
> heth #1 [ħ] => Greek [h], theoretically represented by a rough
> breathing if
> at the beginning of a word, but in practice likely
> dropped.
> Sure to be dropped if not word-initial.
>
> heth #2 [x] => Greek Χ (chi)
>
> ayin #1 [ʕ] => Usually not indicated in Greek, but sporadically
> indicated
> impressionistically by a vowel (e.g. Ροβοαμ/
> Rhoboam for
> רחבעם)
>
> ayin #2 [ɣ] => Greek Γ (gamma)
>
>> To return to Phennana, the MT has it as PNINAH with a dagesh in
>> the second N
>> as is customary after a xirik sans yod. I notice with interest
>> that they
>> read the first letter of this name as a "soft" F and not as the
>> "hard" P of
>> today.
>
> There are many uncertainties in tracing the phonetic changes that
> were taking
> place both in Hebrew/Aramaic and Greek during this period. It is
> safe to say,
> however, that the Greek Φ/Ph was *not* pronounced [f]. At most, it
> may have
> reached the point of becoming a bilabial fricative [ɸ], and it may
> have still
> had its older pronunciation as an aspirated stop [ph]. The fact
> that the
> letter Π/P was not used must indicate that the Hebrew pe was no
> longer
> perceived as a plain stop [p], but beyond that it is hard to say
> for sure.
>
>> The second N of PNINAH has a dagesh 'forte' and yet this N is not
>> "geminated". On the other hand they render the city name AKO (with
>> a dagesh
>> in the K as customary after a patax) of Jud. 1:31 as Ακχω. It
>> is all,
>> unfortunately, very bewildering. I tend to think that the LXX are
>> mostly
>> wrong, and the MT right; Αρμαϑαιμ and Σιϕα just don't
>> sound right to me (as
>> well as the funny Phennana).
>>
>> Yes, indeed, the Editors of the Oxford Hebrew-English dictionary have
>> removed all dgeshim, except in B K P, and also all the unnecessary
>> schwas. I
>> love it.
>
> In other words, they do not remove *all* dagheshes, only those that
> make no
> difference to the modern pronunciation.
>
>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 5:22 PM, Will Parsons wrote:
>>
>>> I don't have a copy of the Oxford English-Hebrew dictionary; does
>>> it really
>>> remove all dgeshim or just those where it doesn't make a
>>> difference to the
>>> modern pronunciation?
>
> --
> Will Parsons
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