[b-hebrew] woman

Harold Holmyard hholmyard3 at earthlink.net
Sun Feb 1 21:03:46 EST 2009


Doug ,
> Hi Harold , another great day of beautiful rain, here in Yeppoon we 
> have had a great run of summer rain , boy would Vic' want some of that 
> , ok Harold,  Hosea wrote a story about a couple whom it seems 
> represent God and Israel with Gomer as Israel , and the story seems 
> about a woman who knows no sexual boundaries , and she has three 
> children , these children seem to be eras of time for Israel , is that 
> possible ?

HH: I don't think so. All the children seem to be describing the 
contemporary situation of Israel in Hosea's time. All the children of 
promiscuity represent the contemporary promiscuous behavior of Israel, 
and each child's name represents some fact about how God would treat 
Israel or think about them very soon.

Hos 1:2  When the LORD first spoke to Hosea, He said this to him: Go and 
marry a promiscuous wife and have children of promiscuity, for the whole 
land has been promiscuous by abandoning the LORD. 3 So he went and 
married Gomer daughter of Diblaim, and she conceived and bore him a son. 
4  Then the LORD said to him: Name him Jezreel, for in a little while I 
will avenge the bloodshed of Jezreel on the house of Jehu and put an end 
to the kingdom of the house of Israel. 5 On that day I will break the 
bow of Israel in the valley of Jezreel. 6  She conceived again and gave 
birth to a daughter, and the LORD said to him: Name her No Compassion, 
for I will no longer have compassion on the house of Israel. I will 
certainly take them away. 7 But I will have compassion on the house of 
Judah, and I will deliver them by the LORD their God. I will not deliver 
them by bow, sword, or war, or by horses and cavalry. 8  After Gomer had 
weaned No Compassion, she conceived and gave birth to a son. 9 Then the 
LORD said: Name him Not My People, for you are not My people, and I will 
not be your God. 1
>  
> Add to that ,
>  
> Is 49:14 speaks of Zion , here we agree is Israel , who is left to 
> feel forsaken , but then is returned "aa a bride" , again linked to a 
> woman and marrige
>  
> Is 50:1 speaks of a woman , who is to be put away for her because of 
> her children transgressions
>  
> Is 54:1-5 has the same situation , a woman put away who has children , 
> and who returns in a bride situation.
>  
> Is 62:5 we have a similar situation where we begin with the subject 
> Zion and Jerusalem , both I woud say have application , as you said, 
> to "Washington" , they both represent the nation of Israel , and are 
> returned as a bride , in this case it gets more interest by the groom 
> being "her sons " .

HH: Here the word "marry" can also mean "possess, rule over." There is 
wordplay. The sons will possess the land with the fervent attachment 
that a young man has as he marries a young woman.
>  
> Is 66:6-10 has a mother with child , almost identical to Rev 12:1-3 , 
> I mean how can we say that a woman who bares a male child and then 
> more children are different women, not connected .

HH: Yes, hey are connectetd. By verse 8 the Isaiah passage is talking, I 
think, about the the glorious kingdom (see the end of chapter 65) by 
verse. Most interpreters take Isa 66:7 of the same event, but it is at 
least conceivable that it talks about the birth of the Lord JesusMessiah 
like Rev 12:1-3. The OT prophecies say that there will be a tribulation 
for Israel like mother bearing a child before the blessed kingdom comes, 
but Isa 66:7 seems to say that there is no tribulation, seeming to 
contradict Daniel 12:1-3. Yet the man child in verse 7, in contrast to 
the sons of verse 8, might conceivably be the Messiah, whose first 
coming preceded tribulation. There is a male child born (v. 7), and then 
a nation and land is born with many sons (v. 8). Is this all the same 
birth? It is conceivable, since the land was born all at once, in one 
day, which could suggest it being without tribulation. Butt the end of 
verse 8 suggests that when Zion travailed, she gave birth. This seems 
different than verse 7, where the birth comes before pain came to the 
mother. But the mother in Isaiah 66 is Zion, and thus ultimately Israel, 
and the mother of the Messiah in Rev 12:1-3 is Israel.

> Jer 3:1-14 we have two "sisters" , Judah and Israel both are compared 
> to women in sexual sin, both are married to God , rejected and then 
> restored .

HH: Right.


>  
> Ezek 16 and 23  we have two women who represent Israel , both in sin , 
> both could be  the "Washington" principle .

HH: Really, in chapter 16, the central figure is Judah. There are 
allegorically two sisters:

Ezek 16:46 Your older sister was Samaria, who lived with her daughters 
to the north of you, and your younger sister was Sodom, who lived with 
her daughters to the south of you.

HH: The two women in Ezekiel 23 are like the two women in Jere 3:1-14. 
But you're right; the two Ezekiel texts both have the southern and 
northern kingdoms as sisters
>  
> Then we have the story of Hosea that seems to cover the complete story 
> of Israel forsaken for her sin and then restored as a bride.

HH: Right
>  
> Add to this is the oft used "metaphor" , allegory , simile style of 
> writing of the "bride/city" being an application of people , as your 
> "Washington" , when you look at that writing style and realise that 
> the "bride" of Rev 21:10 is a city then maybe bells should ring to say 
> that we need to learn a bit more about all the allegorical writings.

HH: You are astute to see that the image of Jerusalem as a bride should 
not catch us by surprise.
>  
>  It kind of makes sense that maybe all these "parable" style writings 
> are presenting a similar "application" to the same sort of "mystery" 
> style the bride,  written of as a city.

HH: The figurative language is used a bit differently in these different 
texts. Sometimes the woman is Jerusalem. Sometimes the woman is Judah. 
Sometimes the woman represents both kingdoms. But the woman always has 
some reference to Israel, as you suggest.
>  
> This is the message I am getting , I am thinking that all these 
> parable/allegorical style pasages as I have mentioned above , do fit 
> in with the bride city of Rev 21:10, I mean what is the purpose of 
> writing these "scenarios" there must be a purpose, and it would be 
> unlikely that all the Prophest were not lined up.  Then if you add 
> "daughter of Zion" as another "allegorical" style of character then 
> all the porphets , or at least the majority have written in this style.
>  
>  I am wondering have you done a study on this style of writing, and it 
> message .

HH: No, I really have not. I have thought a good deal about the idea of 
God as the husband, and Israel or the church (or God's people) as the 
bride. But the main point is that God compares his relationship with his 
people to that of a husband, which is a position of authority, but also 
of intense love and some degree of equality.

Yours,
Harold Holmyard



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