yishalom at sbcglobal.net
Tue Sep 9 18:11:11 EDT 2008
Perhaps I shouldn't get into the fray, but I would like to add from my research that
XRM ~ ChRM in all probability means "lifted, mounted up"
RM = high
RMH = to arch or throw
RMCh = javelin (something thrown in an arch)
/ARM (/A = Aleph) = high plateau such as Aram of the two rivers, Aramia
\ARM (\A = Ayin) = to gather upwards, heap up
related to this is
L'HaReeM, the Hiphil of RWM, which means to lift away or remove
T'RooMaH = an offering that is "lifted up, presented and removed"
XRM = lift up > as in mount XeRMon
= lift up and remove > to destroy
= lift up and remove > to consecrate
In Sabaic = put s.o under restraint, be in a sacred state, prohibit
In Syriac = devote to G-d, destroy utterly, curse, put under a ban
In Akkadian = to cut off, separate
ChRM = take away, deny, exclude, prohibit, declare sacred
XRM = to carry away / off, destroy, annihilate, come to an end, peter out
--- On Tue, 9/9/08, b-hebrew-request at lists.ibiblio.org <b-hebrew-request at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote:
From: b-hebrew-request at lists.ibiblio.org <b-hebrew-request at lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: b-hebrew Digest, Vol 69, Issue 9
To: b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Tuesday, September 9, 2008, 10:20 AM
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1. Re: Baal-Hermon (Yigal Levin)
2. origins of rosh hashana and yom kippur (Uzi Silber)
3. Baal-Hermon (JimStinehart at aol.com)
4. Re: Baal-Hermon (Isaac Fried)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 08:48:20 +0300
From: Yigal Levin <leviny1 at mail.biu.ac.il>
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Baal-Hermon
To: b-hebrew <b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <000f01c9123f$aa550cf0$66a314ac at xp>
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Unfortunately, your very long post (actually 2 posts!) repeats a lot of old
material, makes some unbased assertions, and does not answer the question.
Most of what you wrote about the identitification of Hermon/Senir etc. is
irrelevant. Your proposed etymology for Hermon does not work. Your are wrong
that the common etymology for Hermon, XRM, means "to destroy". It
consecrate", that Hermon was considered holy (probably by the Canaanites).
You write about "JEPD" as if "he" were a "person"
- which of course he was
not. The whole idea behing the Documentary Hypothesis is that different
parts of the Pentateuch were written by different people at different times.
I assume that you know this, so your referring to "what JEPD knew"
and so on
is a diliberate misrepresentation of the theory, meant to redicule it. Of
course you don't have to agree with the DH, but what you are doing is
intellectually dishonest. It's also not relevant to the issue, since both
references to "Baal Hermon" are actually NOT in the Pentateuch, but
Judges and in Chronicles.
So thanks for trying, but you have not helped answer my question.
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 09:43:21 -0400
From: "Uzi Silber" <uzisilber at gmail.com>
Subject: [b-hebrew] origins of rosh hashana and yom kippur
To: b-hebrew <b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org>,
biblical-studies at yahoogroups.com, biblicalist at yahoogroups.com
<9973d10e0809090643m2d261cfft80fdad385f3869e5 at mail.gmail.com>
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this is my understanding in a nutshell.
originally, there were two big holidays -- pilgrimages actually - that the
Israelites inherited from the Canaanites:
1) Pesach (combination of Hag Matzot and Pesach) and
One celebrated from time immemorial the fall harvest and onset of the rainy
season while the other was positioned at the beginning of the dry season
celebrating the beginning of the summer harvest and sheep sheering. With the
passage of the centuries these two khagim would commemorate additional
events -- sukkot coincided with the dedication of the first temple while the
exodus celebration would be appended to Pesach.
Shavuot is simple the end of the Pesach season (also known as the omer)
Then during and after the Babylonian exile, this equinox/harvest schdule was
modified with two new connected holidays.
Yom zikhron truah ((later known as rosh hashana) and yom kippur (another yom
hazikaron) were added to the calendar. Both of these holidays in the month
of tishrei (tashritu in Babylon) are of Babylonian provenance.
Considering the state of mind in wake of the catastrophe of the destruction
of the first commonwealth, its not surprising that the exiles and returnees
would adopt and adapt these two Babylonian holidays to Judahite purposes.
zikaron -- "remember!" its sort of like a "never again"
allaying god's wrath through annual repentance, the proto-Jews were
attempting to ensure that never again would such a calamity happen.
I look forward to any and all comments.
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 10:42:41 EDT
From: JimStinehart at aol.com
Subject: [b-hebrew] Baal-Hermon
To: b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <bb8.390b55cf.35f7e561 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
1. Everyone knows that the southern tip of the Anti-Lebanon mountain range
is dominated by three towering, majestic summits of approximately equal height,
on the northern border of the Hebrews. The only natural reading of I
Chronicles 5: 23 and Song of Solomon 4: 8, which two Bible verses are set forth
below, is that (i) each passage is referring to those three summits by three
individual names, and that (ii) ?Baal-Hermon? and ?Amana? are alternative names
for the same summit (probably the easternmost summit).
?And the children of the half-tribe of Manasseh dwelt in the land, from
Bashan unto  Baal-hermon and  Senir and  mount Hermon, where they
increased.? I Chronicles 5: 23
?Come with me from Lebanon, my bride, with me from Lebanon; look from the
top of  Amana, from the top of  Senir and  Hermon, from the
dens, from the mountains of the leopards.? Song of Solomon 4: 8
2. If Baal-Hermon means the easternmost summit at the southern tip of the
Anti-Lebanon mountain range, then the other Biblical reference to Baal-Hermon,
which is ?Mt. Baal-Hermon?, makes perfect sense as well:
?namely, the five lords of the Philistines, and all the Canaanites, and the
Zidonians, and the Hivites that dwelt in mount Lebanon, from mount
unto the entrance of Hamath.? Judges 3: 3
Hamath, or Lebo-Hamath, is northeast of the easternmost summit at the
southern tip of the Anti-Lebanon mountain range, so there is nothing surprising
3. The five suggestions that you have floated as to the meaning of ?
Baal-Hermon?, in opposition to the above natural reading of the foregoing Bible
verses, cannot stand.
(i) How could Baal-Hermon be a ?city?, when (a) it is expressly called a
?mountain? at Judges 3: 3, and (b) it is juxtaposed at I Chronicles 5: 23
with the two other summits at the southern tip of the Anti-Lebanon mountain
(ii) Likewise, how could Baal-Hermon be ?the top of Mt. Hermon?, when (a)
Baal-Hermon itself is expressly called a ?mountain? at Judges 3: 3, and (b)
it is juxtaposed at I Chronicles 5: 23 with the two other summits at the
southern tip of the Anti-Lebanon mountain range?
(iii) How could Baal-Hermon be a ?ghost-name?, when (a) at I Chronicles 5:
23 it is one of three names for the three summits at the southern tip of the
Anti-Lebanon mountain range, and (b) we have Phoenician and Punic inscriptions
attesting to the similar-sounding ?Baal Hamon? as a towering mountain? (Yes,
the Phoenicians were referring to a different mountain when they used that
phrase, but both uses of that phrase refer to a towering, majestic mountain to
(iv) Likewise, how could Baal-Hermon be ?erroneous?, when (a) it works
perfectly as being one of three names for the three summits at the southern tip
the Anti-Lebanon mountain range, and (b) we have Phoenician and Punic
inscriptions attesting to the similar-sounding ?Baal Hamon? as a towering,
(v) ?Baal-Hermon? cannot be ?Baal-Gad?. Joshua 13: 5 describes Baal-Gad
as being at the foot of Mt. Hermon. Baal-Gad must be a town at the foot of Mt.
Hermon. By sharp contrast, (a) Baal-Hermon is expressly called a ?mountain?
at Judges 3: 3, and (b) Baal-Hermon is juxtaposed at I Chronicles 5: 23 with
the two other summits at the southern tip of the Anti-Lebanon mountain range.
4. As to ?Hermon? and ?Mt. Hermon?, in the Bible those names usually, but
not always, referred to all three summits at the southern tip of the
Anti-Lebanon mountain range, collectively. (Uniquely at Psalms 42: 6, the
Hermons? is used in the plural.) But on the fairly rare occasions when an
individual name was used for each one of those three peaks, then the
summit, closest to the Hebrews, was called ?Hermon? or ?Mt. Hermon?. If
individual names were being used for the three summits, then the summit in the
was called ?Shenir? (although as with ?Hermon?, the Amorite name ?Shenir?
usually referred to all three summits, collectively). Most obvious is that ?
Baal-Hermon? and ?Amana? each have only one meaning in the Bible, that never
varies: the easternmost summit of the three summits at the southern tip of the
Anti-Lebanon mountain range.
5. To the best of my knowledge, the foregoing explanation works for every
single verse in the Bible that refers to one or more of ?Baal-Hermon?, ?Mt.
Baal-Hermon?, ?Amana?, ?Hermon?, ?Mt. Hermon?, ?Hermons?, or ?Shenir?.
If you reject my proposed explanation of the Biblical meaning of ?Baal-Hermon?
, then I would expect you to set forth one or more Bible verses that do not
mesh with the foregoing explanation.
Anyone who looks at the first two Bible verses I quoted above, and who knows
that the southern tip of the Anti-Lebanon mountain range is dominated by three
towering, majestic summits of approximately equal height, at the northern
border of the Hebrews, can see that ?Baal-Hermon? and ?Amana? are alternative
names in Biblical Hebrew for the same mountain, namely the easternmost summit
of the three mountain peaks at the southern tip of the Anti-Lebanon mountain
What Bible verse(s) do you see as being inconsistent with that
straightforward explanation? What Bible verse(s) would cause you to question
straightforward analysis of I Chronicles 5: 23, where ?Baal-Hermon? is used as
name of one of the three famous, majestic peaks at the southern tip of the
Anti-Lebanon mountain range, which three peaks were divinely impressive, as
seemed to tower over the Hebrews in grandeur from the north?
P.S. I apologize for my misleading reference to ?JEPD? in my earlier post.
I meant that as shorthand for ?all the many Biblical authors who lived in the
1st millennium BCE?. I do not ridicule the Documentary Hypothesis, or even
oppose it, generally. Rather, my position is limited to the following very
limited assertion: the Documentary Hypothesis has no relevance to the
Patriarchal narratives. All I was trying to do with my ill-advised reference
was to make the point that since ?Baal Hamon? is in Phoenician and Punic
inscriptions from the 1st millennium BCE (as opposed to the Ugaritic words I
referenced from the Late Bronze Age), then the various Biblical authors in the
millennium BCE (not narrowly limited to J and E and P and D as four separate
individuals, who are four of such authors, but who are by no means all or even
most of such Biblical authors) would likely have been aware of the phrase ?
**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:24:18 -0400
From: Isaac Fried <if at math.bu.edu>
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Baal-Hermon
To: Yigal Levin <leviny1 at mail.biu.ac.il>
Cc: b-hebrew <b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <CC3A1C34-4D2E-4A2F-8437-1CF506276593 at math.bu.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes;
It is dangerous business to pick out roots out of names, and it may
be misleading to attach to a root too an abstract a meaning, say
'consecrate' to XRM. I think XRM is related to GRM of 2 kings 9:13.
XERMON could be possibly a compacted form of the compounds HAR-RAM-)
ON or KAR-RAM-)ON, or HAR-MA(ON or KAR-MA(ON, or who nows what. BA(AL
is (= BA) essentially something lofty, as indicated by the letter L
present in it, as in (PL [see Numbers 14:44.]
On Sep 8, 2008, at 12:57 AM, Yigal Levin wrote:
> Dear Kelton,
> More up-to-date archaeological data make it clear that there was
> never a "city" on the peak of Mt. Hermon. There are a few
> and some open-air cult sites, although none that I know of go back
> to the early Iron Age, which would be the relevant period. However,
> the Bible never actually says that Baal-Hermon was a "city". It
> makes a lot of sense to assume that there was a site dedicated to
> the worship of Baal on the peak of Hermon - we know that Baal was
> often associated with such peaks, such as Carmel and Baal-Zaphon.
> The name Hermon even seems to be derived from the root XRM -
> "consecrated". However there is no evidence, from either
> inscriptions or archaeology that such a place actually existed.
> PLUS, as I wrote before, Judges 3:3 seems to be a textual
> conflation of Josh. 13:5, which actually mentions "Baal-Gad under
> Mount Hermon".
> Yigal Levin
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: kgraham0938 at comcast.net
> To: Yigal Levin ; b-hebrew
> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 2:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Baal-Hermon
> BDB, seems to think BA'AL HERMON is an actual city.
> BA'AL HERMON a city so named as seat of the worship of Baal. ?The
> crest of Hermon is strewn with ruins and the foundations of a
> circular temple of large hewn stones,? Tristr:Tpg, cf. on
> sacredness, Euseb. Lag:Onom 217: possibly = BA'AL GAD
> I'm wondering if it is possible that the various names in 1 Chron
> may refer to two different peaks?
> BDB says that Sener and Hermon are probably referring to these
> two peaks in 1 Chronicles
> It has three peaks; and the names Hermon and Sener
> aredistinguished in 1 Ch 5:23 Ct 4:8, may refer to two of these peaks;
> So maybe Ba'al Hermon is referring to an actual city & Hermon in
> 1 Ch is referring to one of the peaks of the mountain.
> Kelton Graham
> KGRAHAM0938 at comcast.net
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Yigal Levin <leviny1 at mail.biu.ac.il>
>> I'll re-state the problem. While (Mount) Hermon is well-known and
>> appears quite
>> a few times in the Bible, the specific form "Baal-Hermon"
>> in ONLY two
>> sources, and both are problematic:
>> The first is in the boundary description of Judges 3:3: instead of
>> "Baal-Gad under Mount Hermon", Judges has
"Baal-Hermon". Were this
>> the ONLY
>> source, there would be little doubt that this is a "ghost
>> created by
>> Judges' abbreviation of Josh. 13:5
>> However, there's 1 Chr. 5. The geographical context is close
>> enough to make it
>> unlikely that this is a different place with the same name (unless
>> another Hermon as well...). Where did Chr.'s description come
>> from? If it is
>> tak en from a source that is ultimately independent of Judges 3:3,
>> that would be
>> evidence of "Baal-Hermon" being a real place, which would
>> of the realationship between Judges 3:3 and Josh. 13:5 (that the
>> former is NOT
>> just an abbreviation of the latter). If not, then we have to
>> understand why Chr.
>> took only that term from Judges 3:3, in a description that seems
>> related to
>> Deut. 3.
>> Yigal Levin
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: kgraham0938 at comcast.net
>> To: Yigal Levin ; b-hebrew ; biblical-studies at yahoogroups.com ;
>> biblicalist at yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 4:24 AM
>> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Baal-Hermon
>> I'm wondering if BAAL-HERMON is referring to the high places that
>> exist on top
>> of Mt Hermon. Or maybe the NIV rendering is correct and take those
>> vavs as
>> ; 1 Chr onicles 5:23 The people of the half-tribe of Manasseh were
>> they settled in the land from Bashan to Baal Hermon, that is, to
>> Senir (Mount
>> Kelton Graham
>> KGRAHAM0938 at comcast.net
>> -------------- Original message --------------
>> From: Yigal Levin
>>> Baal-Hermon appears in the boundary of the land not conquered by
>>> according to the abbreviated description in Judges 3:3: "From
>>> unto Lebo-Hamath". In the more complete text in Josh. 13:5,
>> boundary is
>>> described as stretching "from Baal-Gad under Mount Hermon
>>> While some scholars have attempted to explain the name "Baal-
>>> Hermon" as
>>> designating the peak of Mount Hermon, overlooking Baal-Gad itself
>> (probably in
>>> the sout hern Ba qa', near Hasbayeh), most assume either that
>>> names are
>>> synonymous, or even that the version in Judges is erroneous, a
>>> place-name" caused by the abbreviated boundary-list. However
>> is also
>>> given as part of the bounda ry of the Transjordanian half-tribe of
>> Menasseh in 1
>>> Chr. 5:23: "from Bashan unto Baal-Hermon and Senir and Mount
>>> Hermon". This
>>> be seen either as evidence of there actually being such a place,
>>> which was
>>> to either the Chronicler or his immediate source, even though
>>> it is not mentioned anywhere else, or of the fact that the
>>> Chronicler or
>>> immediate source, when composing his description of the Menassite
>>> chose to combine this particular element from Judges 3:3 with the
>>> that seem more based on Deut. 3:8-13 (w hich is the only other
>>> place in
>>> Hermon, Senir and Bashan are listed together, in a description of
>>> Transjordanian tribes).
>>> So which is it: is there such a place (and where is it), or did
>>> pick up a "ghost-name" from an unexpected source?
>>> Yigal Levin
>>> _________________________________ _______ _______
>>> b-hebrew mailing list
>>> b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
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