[b-hebrew] Those evil pagans
Yigal Levin
leviny1 at mail.biu.ac.il
Mon Feb 4 17:03:48 EST 2008
Karl,
Both George and myself have stated that this discussion is over. Now that
you got in the last word, please end it now.
Yigal Levin
co-moderator
----- Original Message -----
From: "K Randolph" <kwrandolph at gmail.com>
To: "B Hebrew" <b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Those evil pagans
> Yitzhak:
> I wrote "self-professed pagans", which is different than others calling
> them
> "pagans".
>
> As for the founders of DH being pagans, we have their writings as quoted
> extensively in the PhD dissertation Zur Datierung der Genesis "P" Stücke
> by
> Dr. Samuel R. Külling that show their beliefs. Their beliefs were not
> Christian, but consistent with ancient Greek beliefs, which are commonly
> called "pagan".
>
> If we analyze people according to their self-professed beliefs, the vast
> majority of those who call themselves "Christian", or even "born again
> Christian" have beliefs that contradict the New Testament, therefore they
> are not Christians according to the New Testament definition of who should
> be recognized as a Christian. But I wasn't referring to those in the quote
> below. In the quote below I was referring to those who proudly say, "I am
> a
> pagan."
>
> As for the New Testament being a "pagan" document, that is a matter of
> interpretation, as it was written by Jews, based on their understanding of
> Tanakh. As such, it is probably more accurate to call New Testament
> Christianity a Jewish sect, no less Jewish than Karaite Judaism that also
> had many non-Jewish adherents. To say more is getting too far off topic
> for
> this list.
>
> What brought this up is a discussion of DH, where the lack of historical
> documentation to support it made the religious beliefs of those who
> founded
> the theory important. If they had documentation ........ but they don't.
> End
> of discussion.
>
> Karl W. Randolph.
>
> On Feb 2, 2008 5:43 PM, Yitzhak Sapir <yitzhaksapir at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Feb 1, 2008 4:16 PM, K Randolph <kwrandolph at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Now I have to come to the defense of the pagans. I am not one of them,
>> but I
>> > live in an area where there are many self-professed pagans, and this
>> > description is completely offensive to them, and to me.
>>
>> Hi Karl,
>>
>> I don't know why you say you're not a pagan. From the Orthodox Jewish
>> point
>> of view, anyone who believes in Jesus as the "Lord" or who believes in
>> the
>> concept of the trinity is a pagan. It therefore comes as a surprise to
>> me
>> that
>> you say you're not a pagan, because I thought you did believe in Jesus
>> and
>> in
>> the trinity. Wait a minute. Maybe you meant that you do not view
>> yourself as
>> a pagan, while others may view you as a pagan. But what's to say that
>> those
>> people you call pagans viewed themselves as such? Who exactly in the
>> "history of the DH" that you speak of did not view himself as a Christian
>> while
>> being a "nominal Christian"? Do you have any actual evidence that those
>> people were pagans? That they were not Christians? Could you provide
>> names?
>> You are providing a history of the Documentary Hypothesis that is
>> supposedly
>> based on facts, but you provide no facts to support it, and in fact,
>> it's probably
>> all made up.
>>
>> Yitzhak Sapir
>>
>>
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