[b-hebrew] repost of full question
Dirk Frulla
fiveacorns at yahoo.com
Fri Apr 18 16:45:25 EDT 2008
I agree with a lot of what you are saying.
I do believe that the 4th year of Jehoiakim/ 1st year of Neb. is 606/605. That's fine. I also can see the way that Daniel 1:1 (dated the 3rd year of Jehoiakim) could actually mean the 4th, if you take into consideration that Daniel might be using the accension-year system, while Jeremiah is not, so that year would mark the first (smaller) exile and initial servitude of Israel.
The prophecy is primarily about Israel, and directed toward Israel as well. Agreed. But the duration of the period seems to be measured against more than one nation (Judah), rather many nations (these nations, verse 9, 11).
Jeremiah 27:11 (NIV)
But if any nation will bow its neck under the yoke of the king of Babylon and serve him, I will let that nation remain in its own land to till it and to live there, declares the LORD." ' "
This seems to indicate that if a nation were to serve the king of Babylon as a vassal, it would remain on its own land. Verse 12 continues:
I gave the same message to Zedekiah king of Judah. I said, "Bow your neck under the yoke of the king of Babylon; serve him and his people, and you will live. 13 Why will you and your people die by the sword, famine and plague with which the LORD has threatened **any** nation that will not serve the king of Babylon?
I think any means any ... or in Jeremiah 25:9, all these nations "round about".
If Jeremiah wrote chapter 25 in the 1st year of Neb, and this was 605, and Assyria was crushed in 609, why would Jeremiah have to list it? It was already serving Babylon. "God's wrath" didn't need to be poured out on it - it was already done.
Jeremiah 25:18, does put Jerusalem first on the list, but it also mentions: "Jerusalem and the towns of Judah, its kings and officials, to make them a ruin and an object of horror and scorn and cursing, **as they are today**;" - so something had already started in Jerusalem too.
Thanks for the interesting, interesting emails!
Dirk
----- Original Message ----
From: Harold Holmyard <hholmyard3 at earthlink.net>
To: b-hebrew-lists.ibiblio.org <b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 3:20:30 PM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] repost of full question
Dirk,
> I meant it to read:
>
> Just a side note. The seventy years could be a round. However, it is not necessary. If you take Jeremiah at face value - as 70 years of servitude for "these nations" to the "king of Babylon", then you can start with the full conquering of the ***ASSYRIAN*** empire in 609 BC.... 609-539 = 70 years exactly.
>
HH: Well, I better retract my "Fine," since you do not seem to be making
a valid point now that I look at the details. I thought you meant
Babylon's conquering of Israel, but even that may not be right
HH: The prophecy is primarily about Israel, especially in Dan 9:2 but
also in Jeremiah 25 and 29. In Jer 29:10 I would assume that it was
Babylon's 70 years of hegemony over Israel that was in view.
HH: What is more significant is that Assyria is not even mentioned by
name in the list of nations that Babylon would rule over in Jer 25:17-26.
HH: The dating is clear in Jer 25:1:
Jer. 25:1 The word that came to Jeremiah concerning all the people of
Judah, in the fourth year of King Jehoiakim son of Josiah of Judah (that
was the first year of King Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon),
HH: The fourth year of Jehoiakim was 606 or 605 B.C., but Jeremiah
prophesies of something that is going to happen in the future. So he is
not prophesying the destruction of Assyria earlier in 609 B.C:
Jer. 25:8 Therefore thus says the LORD of hosts: Because you have not
obeyed my words,
Jer. 25:9 I am going to send for all the tribes of the north, says the
LORD, even for King Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon, my servant, and I will
bring them against this land and its inhabitants, and against all these
nations around; I will utterly destroy them, and make them an object of
horror and of hissing, and an everlasting disgrace.
Yours,
Harold Holmyard
>
>
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