furuli at online.no
Thu Mar 16 10:01:50 EST 2006
It is not the duty of the linguist or the philologian to decide from
whom prophecies come. However, the prophecy you refer to came true only
in part. The Israelites suffered a terrible defeat and Saul and his
three sons died, but Saul's son Ishboshet did not die. So, if the
prophecy came from Samuel, he was partly wrong.
University of Oslo
David Mark wrote:
> But the author of 1 Samuel 28 clearly intends the reader to believe
> that Samuel's prediction of the outcome of the coming battle is an
> authoritative prophetic prediction. If Samuel was not the prophet
> making that prediction who was?
> On 3/16/06, Rolf Furuli <furuli at online.no <mailto:furuli at online.no>>
> Dear Uri,
> Your question is a good one, and I will give some comments below.
> While people have tended to create gods in their own image, with
> characteristics typically human, and then include these gods in their
> Holy Writ (e.g. Gilgamesh and Atrahasis), I see a difference in
> connection with the Tanakh. YHWH is described as being very different
> from other gods. From the point of view of archaeology, there can
> be no
> doubt that the people among whom the writers of the different parts of
> the Tanakh lived (Israel/Judah), often adopted the customs and beliefs
> of the nations around them. This is also shown in the Tanakh itself.
> For example, the laws in Deuteronomy 18:10-13 against divination,
> spirit mediums, and inquiring about the dead implies that such
> were extant around Israel, but should not occur there.
> Regarding the view of the dead, I am not aware of any passage in the
> Tanakh which suggests that dead persons have an existence as
> shadows or
> something similar. Then what about the account in 1 Samuel chapter
> 28? I
> see two possibilities, 1) the passage implies that dead persons are
> alive and can come back to the living world, and 2) the passage
> a spiritistic séance where things are not real.
> I opt for the second possibility, something that would bring this
> passage in line with the view of the dead in the rest of the
> Tanakh. I
> think we better can understand this account in the light of the
> in Matthew 17:1-9 in the New Testament. In this account Moses and
> Elijah were present and spoke with Jesus, so it would be natural
> to take
> this account as evidence for the view that the dead are living.
> in v. 9 we learn that this was a vision (hORAMA) - it was not the real
> Moses and Elijah who had returned from their graves and were present.
> In 1 Samuel 28:7 the woman is called B(LT )WB (=spirit medium),
> and this
> suggests that what happened was a spiritistic séance. In vv. 11-14 we
> learn that Saul did not see the dead Samuel, but the woman did. And
> because of her description Saul understood that it was Samuel. In
> v. 15
> Samuel speaks to Saul, and this *could* indicate that it was the real
> Samuel. However, since the situation clearly is a spiritistic
> séance and
> Saul did not see Samuel, the words simply tell us that the man
> that the
> woman saw, and whom Saul identified as Samuel, spoke. And the words
> would evidently come through the medium. Moses and Elijah spoke to
> Jesus as well in Matthew, chapter 17, without doing so in a real way.
> My conclusion, therefore, is that 1 Samuel, chapter 28 tells us
> what can
> happen at a spiritistic séance, but it tells us nothing about the
> condition of the dead.
> Best regards,
> Rolf Furuli
> University of Oslo
> Uri Hurwitz wrote:
> > Dear Rolf,
> > You wrote, inter alia:
> > ....."In Hebrew thought the NP$ dies and and go down to $)WL,
> to the grave,
> >where there is no life. So any "afterlife" in the sense that man
> >continues to live after the body dies, is not found in the Tanakh
> >(including Daniel)."....
> > How do you interpret the bringing forth of the dead Samuel
> through the witch of Ein
> > Dor in I Samuel 28? Here it appears that lady managed to raise
> the late prophet both
> > in body and in mind.
> > While this is rather rare in the HB, it seems to indicate
> belief in survival in the after-
> > life.
> > Best,
> > Uri
> b-hebrew mailing list
> b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org>
More information about the b-hebrew