peter_kirk at sil.org
Sat Mar 18 12:57:50 EST 2000
Thank you, Todd, for your practical wisdom. But can you give evidence
that the Hebrew NF&F) or NASA means "lack of eternal punishment"? This
seems to be a rather anachronistic thought, perhaps based more on your
admirable theology rather than on the Hebrew text. Even the lexica
which translate "forgive" may well be influenced by theological
understandings, and there are also obviously different ideas of what
"forgive" means in English.
As for the parallel with Exodus 20:5-6, that is interesting. The
grammar of L:&ON:)FY "those who hate me" seems rather odd: are these
the fathers or the descendants? Perhaps the meaning is something like
"if the fathers sin, I will punish those of their descendants who hate
me (to the third an fourth generation), but show XESED to those of
their descendants who love and obey me (for thousands of
generations)". And XESED here must include forgiveness, or at least
forbearance, as well as love. So wicked sons are punished for the sins
of their fathers as well as their own, but faithful sons are not
punnished for the sins of their forebears. Does that make sense? That
is rather different from Harold's interpretation, but I think is a
better explanation of the relevance of verse 6, taking the "thousands"
(with many translations) as "thousands of generations".
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Num 14:18
Author: <tbbyoung at flash.net> at Internet
Date: 17/03/2000 23:29
"Harold R. Holmyard III" wrote:
> Dear Bill,
> You suggested that many translations of Num 14:18 turn the words into
> "double-speak" by adding "the guilty" after "He will not leave unpunished."
> By "double-speak" I assume you mean that the verse would first say that God
> forgives sin and then would say that He punishes sin. If He forgives it,
> why does He punish it? If He forgives, why are the people still guilty?
> [BTW, it seems wrong to say that NF&F) does not mean "forgive" when that is
> a meaning found to be suitable by lexica at many verses.]
> The solution of these versions to insert "guilty" probably arises from
> reading of Num 14:18 alongside Exod 20:5. There God divides people into two
> groups, those who love Him and those who hate Him. Numbers 14:18 utilizes
> this foundational passage in a condensed form, leaving the reader to supply
> the missing elements. God is not forgiving and punishing the same group of
> people simultaneously. He is forgiving those who love Him and punishing
> those who hate Him.
> Harold Holmyard
I must take exception to your theory. Just because sin is forgiven does not mean
no punishment is due. When my 8 year old breaks a rule, he often says he is sorr
asks me to forgive him. I will forgive, but his actions still warrant some form
discipline. God disciplines those he loves. Forgiveness equals a lack of eternal
punishment, but not eliminate temporal discipline or consequences.
Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary
Fort Worth, TX
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