[B-Greek] Genre & Grounding

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Sun Oct 18 14:04:10 EDT 2009


Of the 7 instances of ἐκ τούτου [τούτων] EK TOUTOU [TOUTWN] in the Apostolic Fathers most are partitive, 1 is temporal, 2 are causative.
 george
gfsomsel 


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learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.


- Jan Hus
_________ 



----- Original Message ----
From: Elizabeth Kline <kline_dekooning at earthlink.net>
To: greek B-Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sun, October 18, 2009 10:11:23 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Genre & Grounding


On Oct 17, 2009, at 11:04 AM, Mark Lightman wrote:

> My sense is that if EK TOUTO were temporal it would more likely
> be EK TAUTHS (or APO TAUTHS or AF' hHS) with a feminine
> noun like hWPA or hHMERA implied.  Of course the noun implied
> could be CRONOS, but does anyone else feel that a convention
> developed in Koine to associate time with feminine nouns in general?
> MG, for what it's worth gives, DI' AUTON LOGON EZHTOUSE hO
> PILATOS NA TON APOLUSHi  διʼ αυτον τον λογον  
> εζητουσε ο
> Πιλατος  να τον απολυσῃ


Mark,

You should illustrate your suggestions with examples.

.
A GNT search for EK TAUTHS yeilds one citation which isn't temporal
.
Acts 19:25 οὓς συναθροίσας καὶ τοὺς περὶ  
τὰ τοιαῦτα ἐργάτας εἶπεν· ἄνδρες,  
ἐπίστασθε ὅτι ἐκ ταύτης τῆς  
ἐργασίας ἡ εὐπορία ἡμῖν ἐστιν
.
ACTS 19:25 hOUS SUNAQROISAS KAI TOUS PERI TA TOIAUTA ERGATAS EIPEN·  
ANDRES, EPISTASQE hOTI EK TAUTHS THS ERGASIAS hH EUPORIA hHMIN ESTIN
.
AF' hHS with hHMERAS
.
Acts 20:18 ὡς δὲ παρεγένοντο πρὸς αὐτὸν  
εἶπεν αὐτοῖς· ὑμεῖς ἐπίστασθε,  
ἀπὸ πρώτης ἡμέρας ἀφ᾿ ἧς ἐπέβην  
εἰς τὴν Ἀσίαν, πῶς μεθ᾿ ὑμῶν τὸν  
πάντα χρόνον ἐγενόμην,
.
ACTS 20:18 hWS DE PAREGENONTO PROS AUTON EIPEN AUTOIS· hUMEIS  
EPISTASQE, APO PRWTHS hHMERAS AF᾿ hHS EPEBHN EIS THN ASIAN, PWS  
MEQ᾿ hUMWN TON PANTA CRONON EGENOMHN
.
Acts 24:11 δυναμένου σου ἐπιγνῶναι ὅτι  
οὐ πλείους εἰσίν μοι ἡμέραι δώδεκα  
ἀφ᾿ ἧς ἀνέβην προσκυνήσων εἰς  
Ἰερουσαλήμ.
.
ACTS 24:11 DUNAMENOU SOU EPIGNWNAI hOTI OU PLEIOUS EISIN MOI hHMERAI  
DWDEKA AF᾿ hHS ANEBHN PROSKUNHSWN EIS IEROUSALHM.
.
Col. 1:6 τοῦ παρόντος εἰς ὑμᾶς, καθὼς  
καὶ ἐν παντὶ τῷ κόσμῳ ἐστὶν  
καρποφορούμενον καὶ αὐξανόμενον  
καθὼς καὶ ἐν ὑμῖν, ἀφ᾿ ἧς ἡμέρας  
ἠκούσατε καὶ ἐπέγνωτε τὴν χάριν  
τοῦ θεοῦ ἐν ἀληθείᾳ·
.
COL. 1:6 TOU PARONTOS EIS hUMAS, KAQWS KAI EN PANTI TWi KOSMWi ESTIN  
KARPOFOROUMENON KAI AUXANOMENON KAQWS KAI EN hUMIN, AF᾿ hHS hHMERAS  
HKOUSATE KAI EPEGNWTE THN CARIN TOU QEOU EN ALHQEIAi·
.
Col. 1:9 Διὰ τοῦτο καὶ ἡμεῖς, ἀφ᾿ ἧς  
ἡμέρας ἠκούσαμεν, οὐ παυόμεθα ὑπὲρ  
ὑμῶν προσευχόμενοι καὶ αἰτούμενοι,  
ἵνα πληρωθῆτε τὴν ἐπίγνωσιν τοῦ  
θελήματος αὐτοῦ ἐν πάσῃ σοφίᾳ καὶ  
συνέσει πνευματικῇ,
.
  COL. 1:9 DIA TOUTO KAI hHMEIS, AF᾿ hHS hHMERAS HKOUSAMEN, OU  
PAUOMEQA hUPER hUMWN PROSEUCOMENOI KAI AITOUMENOI, hINA PLHRWQHTE THN  
EPIGNWSIN TOU QELHMATOS AUTOU EN PASHi SOFIAi KAI SUNESEI PNEUMATIKHi,
.
Temporal AF' hHS with hHMERAS missing
.
Luke 7:45 φίλημά μοι οὐκ ἔδωκας· αὕτη δὲ  
ἀφ᾿ ἧς εἰσῆλθον οὐ διέλιπεν  
καταφιλοῦσά μου τοὺς πόδας.
.
LUKE 7:45 FILHMA MOI OUK EDWKAS· hAUTH DE AF᾿ hHS EISHLQON OU  
DIELIPEN KATAFILOUSA MOU TOUS PODAS.
.
In light of what Iver said about EK I would suggest that APO in AF᾿  
hHS [hHMERAS] is not temporal. The entire expression is temporal. We  
could say that APO is used in temporal expressions but it is the  
entire expression that yields the temporal meaning.

Elizabeth Kline




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