[B-Greek] Acts 4:33-34
john.franklin.sanders at gmail.com
Tue Nov 24 02:36:07 EST 2009
I apologize, I sent my reply without seeing Iver's response.
Although I do appreciate his deep knowledge and ability, I do sometimes find
myself in disagreement with him on some minor items. And I have one
disagreement in his post.
"However, the KJV is definitely wrong in translating OUDE
GAR as "neither". "
"Definitely Wrong" !
If the KJV had translated OUDE as "airplane", or "pig", or "I wanna go" I
would agree with you. But using "neither" instead of "not even" does not
fall into the category of "Definitely Wrong." It is not a show stopper.
On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Iver Larsen <iver_larsen at sil.org> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jimmy Doyle" <jkdoyle at gmail.com>
> To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: 23. november 2009 20:45
> Subject: [B-Greek] Acts 4:33-34
> > Hello
> > I have a question concerning Acts 4:33-34. Why is CHARIS TE MEGALE EN
> > PANTAS AUTOUS in verse 33 connected with the previous statement
> > the apostles witnessing to the resurrection of Jesus? Doesn't the GAR in
> > verse 34 imply that it should be connected with that verse, so that it
> > should read something like:
> > KAI DUNAMAI MEGALH APEDIDOUN TO MARTURION hOI APOSTOLOI THS ANASTASEWS
> > KURIOU IHSOU.
> > XARIS TE MEGALH HN EPI PANTAS AUTOUS OUDE GAR ENDEHS TIS HN EN AUTOIS,
> > GAR KTHTORES XWRIWN H OIKIWN hUPHRXON, PWLOUNTES EFERON TAS TIMAS TWN
> > PIPRASKOMENWN.
> > (καὶ δυνάμει μεγάλῃ ἀπεδίδουν τὸ μαρτύριον οἱ ἀπόστολοι τῆς ἀναστάσεως
> > κυρίου Ἰησοῦ.
> > χάρις τε μεγάλη ἦν ἐπὶ πάντας αὐτούς οὐδὲ γὰρ ἐνδεής τις ἦν ἐν αὐτοῖς·
> > γὰρ κτήτορες χωρίων ἢ οἰκιῶν ὑπῆρχον, πωλοῦντες ἔφερον τὰς τιμὰς τῶν
> > πιπρασκομένων)
> Your question deals with the usage of discourse particles.
> The TE (solitarium) indicates a very close connection, closer than KAI, and
> is common in Acts. I prefer to call events connected by TE overlapping
> but in this case the two clauses are descriptive, so it would be
> descriptions. They complement each other. The whole section describes the
> blessed state, unity and mutual love in the group of believers at the time.
> v. 33 we see two aspects of God's blessing. First, the apostles received
> power for preaching. Second, the whole group received great compassion for
> other and much blessing (CARIS). (I am sure a preacher could exploit the TE
> to expound on the two classical aspects of evangelism which cannot be be
> The GAR connector supports something in the previous sentence and gives
> explanation about it. In this case the GAR in 34a explains how the CARIS
> to them worked out in their lives. This is shown by the fact that no one
> them was in need. The GAR in 34b, picks up and explains further 34a: How
> it be that no one was in need? That is explained in 34b-35: people sold
> possessions and gave them for distribution to the needy.
> > I'm trying to understand from a grammar/syntax position why the choice is
> > consistently (actually, unanimously from the versions I have looked at:
> > KJV, NRSV, NET, ESV, NIV, NLT, MESSAGE, ASV) made to connect the phrase
> > the previous sentence and not verse 34.
> Since English does not have discourse connectors that correspond to either
> TE or
> GAR, it is difficult to get these nuances expressed in English. CEV
> (Contemporary English Version) is close to your suggestion, and I would not
> fault the translation. However, the KJV is definitely wrong in translating
> GAR as "neither". In this combination the OUDE is an emphatic "no",
> like "not even". There is no other OUDE in the text it could connect to.
> In case you don't have CEV, this is how it reads:
> "In a powerful way the apostles told everyone that the Lord Jesus was now
> God greatly blessed his followers, and no one went in need of anything.
> who owned land or houses would sell them and bring the money to the
> Then they would give the money to anyone who needed it."
> I would translate it differently, but won't do so here.
> Iver Larsen
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