[B-Greek] Did the shepherds believe? Luke 2:15

Marilyn Phemister windmill65 at yahoo.com
Tue Dec 22 12:41:44 EST 2009


Luke 2:15 b Διέλθωμεν δὴ ἕως Βηθλέεμ καὶ ἴδωμεν τὸ ῥῆμα τοῦτο τὸ γεγονὸς 
ὃ ὁ κύριος ἐγνώρισεν ἡμῖν.
DIELQWMEN DH hEWS BHQLEEM KAI IDWMEN TO RHMA TOUTO TO GEGONOS hO hO 
KURIOS EGNWRISEN hHMIN.

Jay, in your transliteration below you left out the TO before  GEGONOS.  
That seems to make a difference to me.  I'm nervous about sticking out 
my neck to respond to this, but it would seem to me that there are two 
things which indicate that the shepherds believed.  First is that they 
called it TO RHMA TOUTO TO GEGONOS,  this thing which has happened.  
Then they called it hO hO KURIOS EGNWRISEN hHMIN, which the Lord has 
made known to us.  First, it seems they acknowledged that it happened, 
then they identified hO KURIOS as their source of information.
I'll be interested in what some of the more learned B-Greekers have to say.

Marilyn Phemister


Jay Adkins wrote:
> Dear BGreek,
>
> Luke 2:15b DIELQWMEN DH EWS BHQLEEM KAI IDWMEN TO RHMA TOUTO YEYOVOS O hO
> KURIOS EGNWRISEN HMIN
>
> �Let us go now to Bethlehem that we might see [if] this saying has happened
> which the Lord has made known to us.�
>
> �Let us go now to Bethlehem and see this thing that has happened which the
> Lord has made known to us.�
>
> When I first translated I thought to add the �[if]� into the words of the
> shepherds.  I did this due to the subjunctive of both verbs.  Since,
> however, I found no support from other translations, I removed it.  And then
> I change the term �saying� to �thing� and also removed �that we might�
> replacing it with �and� so as to make a smoother English phrase and to agree
> with the other translations.  Now I understand that the subjunctive can be
> used for an imperative instead of potential action.  My question is what key
> in the context is there here that I missed?  How do we know for sure that
> the shepherds believed the word of the angels or were in some doubt and
> needed proof?  Secondly, in a construct such as this one, can one
> subjunctive be used as an imperative and the other as a more normal
> subjunctive?  I had no problem understanding from the context the first verb
> was to be used as an imperative.  Should that have been enough to understand
> the second verb was also being used as an imperative?
>
> Once again let me thank all those who might respond and those responsible
> for this web site.  It is such a blessing to be able to ask and learn from
> others.
>
> Merry Christmas to all.
>
> Sola Gratia
> jay adkins
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