[B-Greek] Matthew 28: 19,20
Carl W. Conrad
cwconrad2 at mac.com
Fri Dec 4 06:54:45 EST 2009
It is terminological choices, sometimes those of traditional grammatical analysis, all too often those of academic linguists, that drive me up the wall, especially when they are inconsistent with the choices made by others. I think there is no greater impediment to meaningful discussion of grammatical structures than lack of consensus on descriptive terminology. I don't fault anyone in particular here, because I think we are all guilty of it. I have problems here with some fundamental terms and the way they seem to be applied.
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (ret)
On Friday, December 04, 2009, at 06:38AM, "John Sanders" <john.franklin.sanders at gmail.com> wrote:
>I view this way,
>First, the participals are are related to a substantive in an adjectival
>relation. The substantive here is the participal POREUQENTES, which goes
>back to verse 16, the MAQHTAI, specifically the eleven. Using Thomas's
>terminology, it is descriptive-the ones sent...be baptizing...be teaching.
CWC: I simply don't understand this; I wouldn't call POREUQENTES a substantive at all; MAQHTAI is indeed the substantive to which POREUQENTES is related, but I would argue that POREUQENTES, although taking its gender and number from MAQHTAI, construes adverbially with the imperative MAQHTEUSATE. Taking the road is an essential concomitant of making disciples.
>Secondly, the participals are related to the main verb, MAQHTEUSATE in a
>supporting role, they are making disciples (while)...baptizing...teaching.
>Again, using Thomas's terminology, they are causal.
CWC: Here I think I'd agree with the analysis: BAPTIZEIN and DIDASKEIN are indicated as essential concomitant aspects of MAQHTEUSAI -- but it seems to me misguided to call the participles BAPTIZONTES and DIDASKONTES "causal." Ordinarily when we refer to a participle as "causal" we mean that it explains or gives a reason for the action of the main verb: e.g., AGAPWNTES TREFOMEN TA PAIDIA ("we feed the children because we love them").
>So I would think the answer lies in which direction one is viewing the
>participals-as adjectives toward the subject (descriptive) or as verbs
>toward the object (causal). In this case the subjects are MAQHTAI and the
>objects are MAQHTAI-in-the-making.
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