[B-Greek] Musings over John 1:16
john.franklin.sanders at gmail.com
Fri Apr 17 02:07:09 EDT 2009
You may be correct, but I see no difficulty in reading it as three hOTI
clauses referring back to OUTOS HN ON EIPON in verse 15, where the OUTOS is
referring back to MARTUREI PERI AUTOU at the beginning of verse 15, where
the AUTOU is eventually to referring to O LOGOS SARX EGENETO in verse 14.
How we wish to interpret these referrals is left up to each of us.
On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 7:46 PM, Iver Larsen <iver_larsen at sil.org> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Donald COBB" <docobb at orange.fr>
> To: "Margaret Sim" <margaret_sim at sil.org>; <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: 16. april 2009 11:42
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Musings over John 1:16
> > Iver, it seems to me that the suggestion "because (hOTI) we have received
> > some of that 'fullness', then we have been able to perceive the greatness
> > his glory" goes in a different direction from what the prologue actually
> > says. I would be more inclined to interpret v. 14b as a reference to the
> > seeing that is connected to the Word becoming flesh in 14a: "We saw the
> > glory of the one who put up his tent among us" (the same idea will be
> > up again in 2:11 and elsewhere). KAI ETHEASAMETHA is the logical
> > of EGENETO and ESKHNWSEN. It's difficult for me to see v. 16 as the
> > explication or "reason" of v. 14b. It seems more natural to see v. 16 as
> > that which explains v. 17, which is introduced by its hOTI: "We have
> > received a fullness of overabundant grace *because* grace and truth have
> > come about through Jesus Christ". The fact that v. 18 begins with an
> > asyndeton tends to isolate v. 17 as the culminating point of the
> > development, i.e., the reason for the writer's and readers' "receiving
> > fullness".
> I do not understand what you mean by "different direction".
> A hOTI connects two clauses. Usually a hOTI supports (is subordinated to)
> the preceding clause, but
> occasionally it can support a following clause. However, in this case,
> there is no clause it could
> point forward to and support, since the next clause has its own hOTI.
> Therefore, it has to refer
> backwards to a preceding clause which we agree is 14b.
> 14 a refers to the incarnation, but many of those who saw Jesus did not
> believe that he was the Son
> of God, full of grace and truth. 14b only applies to those few who were
> "born again" to use John's
> term. In my view 16a refers to that event of being born again. Then we
> received some of that glory
> and we have received a new grace that replaces (ANTI) earlier grace. As v.
> 17 implies, the grace and
> truth of Christ is far above that found in the Law of Moses.
> John often uses asyndeton, and even within v. 17 you find asyndetaon
> between the two constrastive
> clauses. I don't think we can put too much emphasis on his asyndeton.
> > So where does that leave the hOTI that begins v. 16? If it's not
> > "representational", Mary, if I've correctly understood your terminology
> > my rapid perousal of your chapter (many thanks!)--then it seems to be
> > hanging somewhat loosely. X. Léon-Dufour, in his commentary, translates:
> > "Yes, from his fullness we have received". Could we then say, along with
> > Léon-Dufour and Ridderbos, that the clause introduced by hOTI (v. 16)
> > functions as a summary of what precedes (including perhaps also v. 15)?
> Do these two gentleman suggest that hOTI functions to mark a summary? I am
> not aware that hOTI (or
> KAI) can ever introduce a summary. Are they translating the text with hOTI
> or the alternative
> reading with KAI, which is well supported and the majority text reading?
> Iver Larsen
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