[B-Greek] Etymological fallacy?
George F Somsel
gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Thu Nov 20 21:17:41 EST 2008
Aaargh !! No, no, no, no, no
While way back in hoary antiquity there was apparently an understanding that the citizens were called by a herald to attend a "town hall meeting", the word EKKLHSIA came to be used for the assembly itself. Practically every burg of Greek origin had an EKKLHSIA
23Ἐγένετο δὲ κατὰ τὸν καιρὸν ἐκεῖνον τάραχος οὐκ ὀλίγος περὶ τῆς ὁδοῦ.24Δημήτριος γάρ τις ὀνόματι, ἀργυροκόπος, ποιῶν ναοὺς ἀργυροῦς Ἀρτέμιδος παρείχετο τοῖς τεχνίταις οὐκ ὀλίγην ἐργασίαν, 25οὓς συναθροίσας καὶ τοὺς περὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα ἐργάτας εἶπεν·ἄνδρες, ἐπίστασθε ὅτι ἐκ ταύτης τῆς ἐργασίας ἡ εὐπορία ἡμῖν ἐστιν 26καὶ θεωρεῖτε καὶ ἀκούετε ὅτι οὐ μόνον Ἐφέσου ἀλλὰ σχεδὸν πάσης τῆς Ἀσίας ὁ Παῦλος οὗτος πείσας μετέστησεν ἱκανὸν ὄχλον λέγων ὅτι οὐκ εἰσὶν θεοὶ οἱ διὰ χειρῶν γινόμενοι.27οὐ μόνον
δὲ τοῦτο κινδυνεύει ἡμῖν τὸ μέρος εἰς ἀπελεγμὸν ἐλθεῖν ἀλλὰ καὶ τὸ τῆς μεγάλης θεᾶς Ἀρτέμιδος ἱερὸν εἰς οὐθὲν λογισθῆναι, μέλλειν τε καὶ καθαιρεῖσθαι τῆς μεγαλειότητος αὐτῆς ἣν ὅλη ἡ Ἀσία καὶ ἡ οἰκουμένη σέβεται.28Ἀκούσαντες δὲ καὶ γενόμενοι πλήρεις θυμοῦ ἔκραζον λέγοντες·μεγάλη ἡ Ἄρτεμις Ἐφεσίων.29καὶ ἐπλήσθη ἡ πόλις τῆς συγχύσεως, ὥρμησάν τε ὁμοθυμαδὸν εἰς τὸ θέατρον συναρπάσαντες Γάϊον καὶ Ἀρίσταρχον Μακεδόνας, συνεκδήμους Παύλου.30Παύλου δὲ βουλομένου εἰσελθεῖν εἰς τὸν δῆμον οὐκ εἴων
αὐτὸν οἱ μαθηταί·31τινὲς δὲ καὶ τῶν Ἀσιαρχῶν, ὄντες αὐτῷ φίλοι, πέμψαντες πρὸς αὐτὸν παρεκάλουν μὴ δοῦναι ἑαυτὸν εἰς τὸ θέατρον.32ἄλλοι μὲν οὖν ἄλλο τι ἔκραζον·ἦν γὰρ ἡ ἐκκλησία συγκεχυμένη καὶ οἱ πλείους οὐκ ᾔδεισαν τίνος ἕνεκα συνεληλύθεισαν.
23 EGENETO DE KATA TON KAIRON EKEINON TARAXOS OUK OLIGOS PERI THS hODOU. 24 DHMHTRIOS GAR TIS ONOMATI, ARGUROKOPOS, POIWN NAOUS ARGUROUS ARTEMIDOS PAREIXETO TOIS TEXNITAIS OUK OLIGHN ERGASIAN, 25 hOUS SUNAQROISAS KAI TOUS PERI TA TOIAUTA ERGATAS EIPEN, "ANDRES EPISTAQE hOTI EK TAUTHS THS ERGASIAS hH EUPORIA hHMIN ESTIN 26 KAI QEWREITE KAI AKOUETE hOTI OU MONON EFESOU ALLA SXEDON PASHS THS ASIAS hO PAULOS hOUTOS PEISAS METESTHSEN hIKANON OXLON LEGWN hOTI OUK EISIN QEOI hOI DIA XEIRWN GINOMENOI. 27 OU MONON DE TOUTO KINDUNEUEI hHMIN TO MEROS EIS APELEGMON ELQEIN ALLA KAI TO THS MEGALHS QEAS ARTEMIDOS hIERON EIS OUQEN LOGISQHNAI, MELLEIN TE KAI EFESIWN. 29 KAI EPLHSQH hH POLIS THS SUGXUSEWS, hWRMHSAN TE hOMOQUMADON EIS TO QEATRON SUNARPASANTES GAION KAI ARISTARXON MAKEDONAS, SUNEKDHMOU PAULOU. 30 PAULOU DE BOULOMENOU EISELQEIN EIS TON DHMON OUK EIWN AUTON hOI MAQHTAI; 31 TINES DE KAI TWN ASIARXWN, ONDES AUTWi FILOI, PEMYANTES PROS
QUTON PAREKALOUN MH DOUNAI hEAUTON EIS TO QEATRON. 32 ALLOI MEN OUN ALLO TI EKRAZON, ** HN GAR hH EKKLHSIA SUGKEXUMENH ** KAI hOI PLEIOUS OUK HiDEISAN TINOS hENEKA SUNELHLUQEISAN.
It would seem that this assembly was not a "called out" group but rather an ad hoc affair. It is not even stated that all were citizens of Ephesus (or even legal aliens).
… search for truth, hear truth,
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
defend the truth till death.
- Jan Hus
From: Leonard Isaksson <leonardo1orchardcity at mac.com>
To: Carl W.Conrad <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 9:21:00 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Etymological fallacy?
I suppose being 'called out of the world" is one way of looking at this
When I read in Ephesians 5.25, χριστος ηγαπησεν την εκκλησιαν και
εαυτον παρεδωκεν υπερ αυτησ,
XRISTOS HGAPHSEN THN EKKLHSIAN KAI EAYTON PAREDWKEN YPER AUTHS,
then it seems to me that given the context, you have the idea of the
husband, who loves the bride, and who as the bridegroom, gives a shout
when he goes to take his bride(like in Matthew 25), that this gives
weight to the idea of called out, as you have the 'called out one' or
the Anointed loved the called out one. One, rather than plural.
Now I do not know much about the Jewish marrying practices of the day,
so what may one say about that.
May not the word at hand have more than one way of being seen by the NT
writers, Paul anyway, in addition to an assembly of people called out
for business, so to speak, also come to have a meaning in the hands of
Paul that is affixed, which means the church, the bride. Clearly in
the context of Eph. 5 the gender of the church, pictured as Christ's
wife, is feminine. How else may one see this?
Sorry if this is not entirely within the protocol of this list.
On Nov 18, 2008, at 6:28 PM, Carl W. Conrad wrote:
> The etymological fallacy appears to be alive and well at the Koinonia
> blog in yesterday's "Word study on ekklesia ("church") — Monday with
> Mounce 15 " entry:
> = http://tinyurl.com/5n9t54
> It's the old chestnut about EKKLHSIA being derived from EKKALEW and
> the word meaning that believers have been "called out of the world" to
> belong to King Jesus. It's worth consulting BDAG on this; the word is
> actually the standard ancient Greek political word for assembly of
> citizens. In the LXX EKKLHSIA was used to convey the Hebrew Qahal,
> "congregation" -- and it is pretty evident the word was carried over
> into early Christian usage for the congregation of believers.
> Warnings against the etymological fallacy don't seem to do much good.
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Ret)
> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
> B-Greek mailing list
> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
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