[B-Greek] LXX Genesis 1:2 - tohu as AORATOS

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Wed May 28 17:52:12 EDT 2008


While it is possible that the use noted in LSJ is used in a cosmogonic context, the snippet given doesn't necessarily indicate such.  Had that been the case, I'm certain Prof H. Evan Runner whom I had for Greek Philosophy would have been severly disappointed that I should be unaware of such.  The "al." in LSJ can indicate that it is another work of the same author.  Unfortunately, I haven't the time at this moment to do any extensive search for it.  In other words, you may be correct, but I cannot confirm that.

 george
gfsomsel


… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.


- Jan Hus
_________



----- Original Message ----
From: Albert Pietersma <albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca>
To: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
Cc: Eric S. Weiss <papaweiss1 at yahoo.com>; b-greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 3:02:56 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] LXX Genesis 1:2 - tohu as AORATOS

Reference in Plato is specific to the Timaeus because of the use of  
AORATOS in cosmogony.
Al

On May 28, 2008, at 2:18 PM, George F Somsel wrote:

> 2 ἡ δὲ γῆ ἦν ἀόρατος καὶ  
> ἀκατασκεύαστος, καὶ σκότος ἐπάνω  
> τῆς ἀβύσσου, καὶ πνεῦμα θεοῦ  
> ἐπεφέρετο ἐπάνω τοῦ ὕδατος.
> 2 hH DE GH HN AORATOS KAI AKATASKEUASTOS, KAI SKOTOS EPANW THS  
> ABUSSOU, KAI PNEUMA QEOU EPEFERETO EPANW TOU hUDATOS
> Not to disagree with Albert, but rather more to possibly add to  
> what he has stated.  LSJ notes
> Pl.Sph.246a, cf. Tht.155e, al.: τὰν ἀ. ἀτραπιτὸν  
> βιότου [TAN A. ATRAPITON BIOTOU] obscure, Epigr.Gr.223
> Liddell, H. G., Scott, R., Jones, H. S., & McKenzie, R. (1996). A  
> Greek-English lexicon. "With a revised supplement, 1996." (Rev. and  
> augm. throughout) (173). Oxford; New York: Clarendon Press; Oxford  
> University Press.
>
> If I am reading this correctly (and I haven't yet checked on it),  
> Plato in the Theatetus uses ἀόρατος [AORATOS] in the sense  
> of "obscure."  Considering the subsequent statement καὶ  
> σκότος ἐπάνω τῆς ἀβύσσου [KAI SKOTOS EPANW  
> THS ABUSSOU], this would seem to be a possible understanding of its  
> use here.george
> gfsomsel
>
>
> … search for truth, hear truth,
> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
> defend the truth till death.
>
>
> - Jan Hus
> _________
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Eric S. Weiss <papaweiss1 at yahoo.com>
> To: b-greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:06:07 AM
> Subject: [B-Greek] LXX Genesis 1:2 - tohu as AORATOS
>
> The LXX in Genesis 1:2 translates the Hebrew tohu wa-bohu as  
> AORATOS KAI
>  AKATASKEUASTOS. I.e., the earth was "invisible." Is that perhaps  
> the basis for Hebrews
>  11:3 saying: PISTEI NOOUMEN KATHRTISQAI TOUS AIWNAS hRHMATI QEOU,  
> EIS TO
>  MH EK FAINOMENWN TO BLEPOMENON GEGONENAI?
>
>  And ... is AORATOS a proper translation of tohu? The other two  
> occurrences in the Hebrew
>  Bible of tohu with bohu are not translated similarly in the LXX.  
> E.g., Jeremiah 4:23 simply
>  subsumes both words under the single Greek word OUQEN, and Isaiah  
> 34:11 translates
>  tohu as ERHMOS, and the Hebrew bohu phrase is totally different  
> in the Greek.
>
>
>
>
>  Eric S. Weiss
>
>
>
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Albert Pietersma PhD
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