[B-Greek] EGW EIMI, KAI: hO KAIROS HGGIKEN - LUKE 21:8
eric.inman at wescorpflex.com
Fri Jan 18 15:50:45 EST 2008
I ended up reaching a different conclusion.
Jesus is warning against following certain people. It seems to me that anyone wishing to attract a following needs to establish two things: 1) that he or she is the person to be followed; and 2) that the time for change changed has arrived, hence the need to follow someone now. EGW EIMI KAI hO KAIROS HGGIKEN (I'm the one and now's the time) strikes me as a very succinct, generic way to represent those two claims, especially in the case of messianic figures. I don't see how anyone would be followed who didn't establish both claims. These two elements seem to be well understood without always needing to be explicitly stated, but Luke chose to do so in this case. Luke often strikes me as being more explicit and/or specific than Matthew or Mark.
From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Kline
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 1:32 PM
To: greek B-Greek
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] EGW EIMI, KAI: hO KAIROS HGGIKEN - LUKE 21:8
Thank you Carl and George,
On Jan 17, 2008, at 2:30 PM, George F Somsel wrote:
> I'm not sure that we can discern that on the basis of the grammar.
> We do see an example of a reporting of the statements of various
> speakers in Mt 16.14
> οἱ δὲ εἶπαν· οἱ μὲν Ἰωάννην τὸν
> βαπτιστήν, ἄλλοι δὲ Ἠλίαν, ἕτεροι
> δὲ Ἰερεμίαν ἢ ἕνα τῶν προφητῶν.
> hOI DE EIPAN, "hOI MEN IWANNHN TON BAPTISTHN, ALLOI DE HLIAN,
> hETEROI DE IEREMIAN H hENA TWN PROFHTWN."
> While we don't see οἱ μὲν [hOI MEN] … ἄλλοι δὲ
> [ALLOI DE] … ἕτεροι δὲ [hETEROI DE], I don't see any
> reason to require it.
On Jan 17, 2008, at 2:28 PM, Carl Conrad wrote:
> My read on it is that there will be lots of people issuing
> apocalyptic announcements of this sort, not that they all will make
> precisely these pronouncements.
LUKE 21:8 hO DE EIPEN: BLEPETE MH PLANHQHTE: POLLOI GAR ELEUSONTAI
EPI TWi ONOMATI MOU LEGONTES: EGW EIMI, KAI: hO KAIROS HGGIKEN. MH
POREUQHTE OPISW AUTWN.
hO KAIROS HGGIKEN is unique to Luke. Let's say the warning found here
is against false teachers/prophets who claim to be acting in Jesus
name ELEUSONTAI EPI TWi ONOMATI MOU and also claim to be someone
important EGW EIMI. This part is easy. Luke adds a third element a
claim that the time is at hand hO KAIROS HGGIKEN.
The question: What are the minimum requirements for a false teacher/
prophet according the Luke LUKE 21:8? Is the claim EGW EIMI a
requirement? The claim itself is ambiguous and may or may not have
messianic significance. I am not concerned about what EGW EIMI
signifies here or in Matthew and Mark. If a teacher/prophet arrives
claiming to act and speak in Jesus name and the message includes hO
KAIROS HGGIKEN but this teacher does not make the claim EGW EIMI, are
we being warned in Luke LUKE 21:8 against a person of this sort?
It seems to me that LUKE 21:8 is saying that a host of apocalyptic
crack pots are going to crop up claiming to be agents in the service
of Jesus and making various dubious statements of which EGW EIMI and
hO KAIROS HGGIKEN representative samples. This is fairly close to
what Carl posted.
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