[B-Greek] Mark 12:38-40
Paul O'Rear
paorear at microsoft.com
Wed Dec 31 15:19:46 EST 2008
Thanks for the comments Carl and George.
George, regarding your comments below, I think the placement of commas in the English text are largely what lead me to the ‘blanket’ readings I suggested were inaccurate. In your example you have no comma, which leads me to consider “men who drink and drive on New Year’s Eve” as essentially a single noun phrase. If you placed a comma after men, I would tend to read it first as a general statement to “beware of men”, and then secondarily read “who drink and drive on New Year’s Eve” as applying to all men.
At least in the NIV, RSV and AV translations I quoted below, the essential statement is made first “Watch out for the teachers of the law”/“Beware of the scribes,” punctuated with either a period (the NIV) or a comma (the RSV and AV) and then followed by what seems to be a description of these teachers/scribes.
The heart of what I was suggesting from the Greek (which is why I think it’s an “understanding the Greek text issue”) was that there was a very close relationship called out in the Greek there of “the desiring scribes”. In other words, why use:
…TWN GRAMMATEWN TWN QELONTWN
Rather than perhaps
…TWN GRAMMATEWN, hOI QELOUSIN
The participle explicitly agreeing with the noun in the attributive position lends itself to being read more closely - like “the desiring scribes”, rather than “the scribes, who desire”. At least that’s how I would understand this type of Greek usage in general terms, but that’s more from my gut than any rule I can state.
So maybe that’s a better question to ask – when reading Greek, do you distinguish relative distance of adjectives, adjectival phrases or relative clauses differently? And whether one does or does not - on what basis?
Paul O’Rear
From: George F Somsel [mailto:gfsomsel at yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 10:20 AM
To: Paul O'Rear; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Mark 12:38-40
I think you have misunderstood the reading of the NASB, RSV and AV [aka: KJV]. I will grant that the NIV sets forth the reading as you characterize it, but the others do not set forth a blanket condemnation of the Scribes. If I were to say "Beware of men who drink and drive on New Year's Eve", would you think that I am asserting that all men drink and drive on New Year's Eve? Obviously I would be restricting my warning to those who drink and drive and not referencing all men. In the same way the AV, NASB and RSV restrict the comments to the Scribes who "love to walk around in flowing robes …" That all Scribes might be considered to fall into this classification is entirely possible though that conclusion is not necessary. This is really not a problem in understanding the Greek text but a problem in understanding English translations.
george
gfsomsel
… search for truth, hear truth,
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
defend the truth till death.
- Jan Hus
_________
________________________________
From: Paul O'Rear <paorear at microsoft.com>
To: "b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:25:36 AM
Subject: [B-Greek] Mark 12:38-40
Greetings B-Greekers and Happy New Year!
38 Καὶ ἐν τῇ διδαχῇ αὐτοῦ ἔλεγεν, Βλέπετε ἀπὸ τῶν γραμματέων τῶν θελόντων ἐν στολαῖς περιπατεῖν καὶ ἀσπασμοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἀγοραῖς 39 καὶ πρωτοκαθεδρίας ἐν ταῖς συναγωγαῖς καὶ πρωτοκλισίας ἐν τοῖς δείπνοις, 40 οἱ κατεσθίοντες τὰς οἰκίας τῶν χηρῶν καὶ προφάσει μακρὰ προσευχόμενοι· οὗτοι λήμψονται περισσότερον κρίμα.
38 KAI EN TH DIDACH AUTOU ELEGEN, BLEPETE APO TWN GRAMMATEWN TWN QELONTWN EN STOLAIS PERIPATEIN KAI ASPASMOUS EN TAIS AGORAIS 39 KAI PRWTOKAQEDRIAS EN TAIS SUNAGWGAIS KAI PRWTOKLISIAS EN TOIS DEIPNOIS 40 hOI KATESQIONTES TAS OIKIAS TWN CHRWN KAI PROFASEI MAKRA PROSEUCOMENOI; hOUTOI LHMYONTAI PERISSOTERON KRIMA.
Problem statement:
TWN GRAMMATEWN TWN QELONTWN…
Most translations appear to translate this passage as a round condemnation against all scribes, but from what I can tell the grammar doesn’t really support it.
For example,
NIV: As he taught, Jesus said, "Watch out for the teachers of the law. They like to walk around in flowing robes and be greeted in the marketplaces, 39 and have the most important seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at banquets. 40 They devour widows' houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. Such men will be punished most severely."
NASB: In His teaching He was saying: "Beware of the scribes who like to walk around in long robes, and like respectful greetings in the market places, 39 and chief seats in the synagogues and places of honor at banquets, 40 who devour widows' houses, and for appearance's sake offer long prayers; these will receive greater condemnation."
RSV: And in his teaching he said, "Beware of the scribes, who like to go about in long robes, and to have salutations in the market places 39 and the best seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at feasts, 40 who devour widows' houses and for a pretense make long prayers. They will receive the greater condemnation."
KJV: And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces, 39 And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts: 40 Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.
In all of these readings, the way the English comes off (at least to this native speaker) is as if all scribes are guilty of these accusations.
In addition, R.T. France’s NIGTC for The Gospel of Mark doesn’t even consider that there may be an issue here, but merely describes the passage as a “blanket attack on scribes as a class” and “while very much shorter than the extended diatribe against scribes and Pharisees in Mt. 23 …, it is no less violent and indiscriminate.” (p.489).
However, from my reading of the Greek syntax, TWN GRAMMATEWN TWN QELONTWN … would essentially be a restrictive attributive participle use. The challenge is that there are many qualifiers tied to QELONTWN which make it then a bit awkward to translate.
The actual sense of the verse seems like it would read more like:
Watch out for the [class of] scribes desiring [or, “that desire”]:
to walk around in robes, and
greetings in the market place, and
important seats in the synagogues, and
places of honor at banquets
Implying a ‘sub-class’ of scribes rather than all scribes, followed by another pair of attributive participles functioning like relative clauses, taking these types of scribes as the reference – hOI KATESQIONTES and PROSEUXOMENOI:
The ones devouring widows’ houses and praying long prayers for show
or
who devour widows’ houses, and pray long prayers for show.
While it’s possible that those bad set of characteristics may have applied to most scribes at that time, I’m not sure that assumption is specifically warranted from this text.
In addition, this passage is set in a larger setting where Jesus had just had an interaction with a scribe where they are both essentially in agreement (Mark 12:28-34) and Jesus states,
Οὐ μακρὰν εἶ ἀπὸ τῆς βασιλείας τοῦ θεοῦ.
OU MAKRAN EI APO THS BASILEIAS TOU QEOU.
“You are not far from the Kingdom of God.”
It seems to me that Mark 12:38-40 may have been more intended as contrastive with 12:28-34 rather than as a “blanket attack on scribes as a class.” In my pseudo-translation above, I’m using ‘class’ to mean ‘sub-class’.
Am I missing something?
Thanks!
Paul O’Rear
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