[B-Greek] hUPAKOHN PISTEWS

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Sat Dec 20 15:22:05 EST 2008


I disagree.  Language is rule oriented up to a point.  It is always the most common words in a language which are irregular.
 george
gfsomsel 


… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.


- Jan Hus
_________ 




________________________________
From: John Wilking <jcwilking at yahoo.com>
To: B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org; George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 3:02:06 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] hUPAKOHN PISTEWS

George,

Romans 1:5 is what Elliott is referring to. I'm wondering if his understanding can be supported by a grammatical/semantic pattern evidenced in other couplets.  My question reflects a neogrammarian perspective: all language is rule ordered, just find the rule (or pattern).

John


--- On Sat, 12/20/08, George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] hUPAKOHN PISTEWS
> To: jcwilking at yahoo.com, B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 2:24 PM
> ὑπακοή [hUPAKOH] and πίστις [PISTIS] are
> coupled together in Rom 1.5 
> 
> διʼ οὗ ἐλάβομεν χάριν καὶ
> ἀποστολὴν εἰς ὑπακοὴν πίστεως
> ἐν πᾶσιν τοῖς ἔθνεσιν ὑπὲρ
> τοῦ ὀνόματος αὐτοῦ 
>  
> DI' hOU ELABOMEN XARIN KAI APOSTOLH EIS hUPAKOHN PISTEW
> EN PASIN TOIS EQNESIN hUPER TOU ONOMATOS AUTOU
>  
> and Rom 16.26
> 
> φανερωθέντος δὲ νῦν διά τε
> γραφῶν προφητικῶν κατʼ
> ἐπιταγὴν τοῦ αἰωνίου θεοῦ εἰς
> ὑπακοὴν πίστεως εἰς πάντα τὰ
> ἔθνη γνωρισθέντος, 
>  
> FANERWQENTOS DE NUN DIA TE GRAFWN PROFHTIKWN KAT'
> EPITAGHN TOU AIWNIOU QEOU EIS hUPAKOHN PISTEW EIS PANTA TA
> EQNH GNWRISQENTOS
> 
> Cranfield details various possibilities for this
> combination in his ICC commentary
> 
> (i) ‘obedience to the faith’ (i.e., to faith in the
> sense of fides quae creditor, the body of doctrine
> accepted);
> (ii) ‘obedience to faith’ (i.e., to the authority of
> faith);
> (iii) ‘obedience to God’s faithfulness attested in the
> gospel’;
> (iv) ‘the obedience which faith works’;
> (v) ‘the obedience required by faith’;
> (vi) ‘believing obedience’;
> (vii) ‘the obedience which consists in faith’.
>  
> Cranfield, C. E. B. (2004). A critical and exegetical
> commentary on the Epistle to the Romans (66). London; New
> York: T&T Clark International.
> 
> Cranfield notes that 1-3 are objective genitives, 4 &
> 5 are subjective genitives, 6 is adjectival and 7 is
> appositive and opts for 7.  This seems to be the choice
> which Elliott makes according to what you have said. 
> Personally, I tend to think it could be all of the above. 
> We sometimes tend to classify usages so strictly that we
> exclude what may seem to be legitimate understandings.  The
> Greek would simply have seen a noun in the genitive related
> to a noun in the accusative.  He was free to draw his own
> conclusions regarding what it meant.  It seems interesting
> to me that it is not simply ὑπακοὴν πίστεως
> [hUPAKOHN PISTEWS] but εἰς ὑπακοὴν
> πίστεως [EIS hUPAKOHN PISTEWS] in both cases.  Thus
> "the obedience of faith" (however construed) is
> the objective.
> 
> george
> gfsomsel 
> 
> 
> … search for truth, hear truth, 
> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
> defend the truth till death.
> 
> 
> - Jan Hus
> _________ 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: John Wilking <jcwilking at yahoo.com>
> To: B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 12:07:55 PM
> Subject: [B-Greek] hUPAKOHN PISTEWS
> 
> 
> Neil Elliott wrote a book, The Arrogance Of Nations,
> Reading Romans in the Shadow of Empire.  He says that
> hUPAKOHN and PISTEWS are almost interchangeable in Romans,
> and when combined in the genitive phrase hUPAKOHN PISTEWS,
> PISTEWS functions as an adjective, "faithful
> obedience."
> 
> Are there other examples in which "interchangeable
> terms" are combined, resulting in the same or similar
> functions?
> 
> John C. Wilking  
> 
> 
>       
> ---
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