[B-Greek] Verbal Genitive 1 Peter 1:2

Doug Knighton douglas.knighton at verizon.net
Thu Dec 4 20:16:59 EST 2008


Norman, a third option -- another way of construing the objective genitive
-- is "chosen ... 'by the sanctification of the spirit' unto obedience ..."
In this case, the subject of the choosing is God (as implied in the first
prepositional phrase), the mode (another way the dative is used) is conveyed
in phrase with the verbal noun hAGIOSMWi, the "object" of which is the human
spirit. It would be convenient if hAGIOSMOS always and only indicated an
external reality (as 'consecrate' sometimes does), but it also can indicate
an internal state (such as 'sanctify' often conveys). So this construal
would tell us that God chooses by doing something called "sanctifying" to
the human spirit which results in our obedience to Christ; it leaves out the
specifics that your first option suggests.

Respectfully,
Doug Knighton, Ch Col USAF (Ret)

-----Original Message-----
From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Norman Wood
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 6:47 PM
To: George F Somsel
Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Verbal Genitive 1 Peter 1:2

Hi George and Carl,
can I run this past you then to see if I have really understood this. The
two ideas that might be present are
1. the chosen whom the Spirit consecrates to obedience
(subjective genitive)
2.those chosen by consecrating their spirit to obedience
(objective genitive)

Best Wishes
Norman Wood
Scotland
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: George F Somsel 
  To: Norman Wood ; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org 
  Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:59 AM
  Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Verbal Genitive 1 Peter 1:2


  EN hAGIASMWi is a preposition with (or which takes) a dative.  When I see
EN + dative one of the things I consider is instrument or means.  We tend to
see PNEUMA in the NT and immediately think "Holy Spirit" though this may not
always be the case.  The genitive is just a genitive.  It is we who
distinguish various flavors (probably "flavours" to you).  The context must
be considered.  For example, in Rom 8.16 Paul speaks of the Spirit bearing
witness with our spirit.  Obviously, the second "spirit" does not reference
the Holy Spirit.  I would therefore be aware of the context before deciding
which is the usage.  It could be consecration by the Spirit or it could be
consecration of the [our] spirit.  HINT:  Would it be consecration by one's
own spirit?  Remember that the prepositional phrase most likely signifies
means or instrument. 

  Now, regarding tense.  hAGIASMWi isn't even a participle.  It is a noun --
hAGIASMOS, -OU, hO.  It therefore has no tense.
   
  george
  gfsomsel 



  . search for truth, hear truth, 
  learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
  defend the truth till death.



  - Jan Hus
  _________ 





----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
  From: Norman Wood <nandk.wood at blueyonder.co.uk>
  To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
  Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 6:21:40 AM
  Subject: [B-Greek] Verbal Genitive 1 Peter 1:2

  Hi,

  In 1 Peter 1:2 the phrase EN hAGIASMWi PVEUMATOS is described by J. Ramsey
Michaels as a subjective genitive (WBC pg 11). However he renders it
'consecrated by the Spirit'. This makes ' by the Spirit' an adverbial phrase
and the Spirit is then not the subject of the verb consecrate. Am I right in
thinking that 'what the spirit consecrates' is how a subjective genitive in
this case might be rendered?

  Also how does one determine the tense of the verb in a verbal genitive? In
the rendering 'consecrated by the Spirit' hAGIAZW has been rendered as a
past tense, however the examples in Wallace GGBB pg 114 translate as both
past and present . Are there any guidelines for this?

  Best Wishes

  Norman Wood

  Scotland
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