[B-Greek] Verbal Genitive 1 Peter 1:2

Norman Wood nandk.wood at blueyonder.co.uk
Thu Dec 4 16:41:42 EST 2008


Hi Carl,
Thank you to both yourself and George for your replies.
This Greek sometimes seems like one step forward two steps back. I'll have 
to think about this one a bit more I see.
Best Wishes
Norman Wood
Scotland

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carl Conrad" <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
To: "Norman Wood" <nandk.wood at blueyonder.co.uk>
Cc: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Verbal Genitive 1 Peter 1:2


>
> On Dec 4, 2008, at 6:21 AM, Norman Wood wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> In 1 Peter 1:2 the phrase EN hAGIASMWi PNEUMATOS is described by J. 
>> Ramsey Michaels as a subjective genitive (WBC pg 11). However he  renders 
>> it 'consecrated by the Spirit'. This makes ' by the Spirit'  an adverbial 
>> phrase and the Spirit is then not the subject of the  verb consecrate. Am 
>> I right in thinking that 'what the spirit  consecrates' is how a 
>> subjective genitive in this case might be  rendered?
>>
>> Also how does one determine the tense of the verb in a verbal  genitive? 
>> In the rendering 'consecrated by the Spirit' hAGIAZW has  been rendered 
>> as a past tense, however the examples in Wallace GGBB  pg 114 translate 
>> as both past and present . Are there any guidelines  for this?
>
> It seems to me that you're confusing the English grammar of the phrase  as 
> translated ("consecrated by the Spirit") with the Greek grammar of  the 
> phrase in the reek text (EN hAGIASMWi PNEUMATOS). This English  phrase 
> consists of a passive participle followed by a prepositional  phrase 
> indicating the agent performing the consecration.  I think that  What 
> Michaels probably means is that hAGIASMOS is a verbal noun and  that the 
> genitive PNEUMATOS indicates the performer of the action  referred to by 
> the verbal noun.
>
> The way the term "subjective genitive" has more or less traditionally 
> been understood is that a genitive substantive indicates the performer  of 
> the action referred to by the verbal noun, while an "objective  genitive" 
> indicates the recipient of that action. If PNEUMATOS in the  above phrase 
> were to be understood as an "OBJECTIVE genitive," the  sense would in that 
> case be that the Spirit is what is being or has  been consecrated.
>
> In fact there is no single right way to English the Greek phrase; one 
> might just as well have Englished it as "by consecration by the  Spirit" 
> or "by the Spirit's consecration."
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>
>
>
> 




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