[B-Greek] hHiDEIS Mt 25:26

Carl Conrad cwconrad2 at mac.com
Wed Dec 3 07:27:51 EST 2008


On Dec 3, 2008, at 3:41 AM, Tom Moore wrote:

> (Oun, the rough-breathing is a typo--should be HiDEIS, right?)
>
> This description "perfect with present meaning" has long bugged me,  
> so I, too, am interested in the answers to this question.
>
> I have, though, my own conjecture based on trying to make sense of  
> the various inflections of OIDA, which perhaps someone can approve  
> or reject.

The root  of the verb is ϝειδ/ϝοιδ/ϝιδ [fEID/fOID/fID (where  
"f" represents the digamma. The digamma was one of three consonants  
that evanesced in itiial or medial position in a word, the others  
being sigma and consonantal iota). It's a good Indo-European root. It  
is indeed related to Latin VIDERE "see" and to German WISSEN "know"  
and old English WIS "know" -- older English-speaking list-members may  
remember the KJV of Luke 2:49 "And he said unto them, How is it that  
ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father’s business?"

Two or three things about this verb should be noted that bear upon the  
variety of forms that Tom Moore has listed below. One is that OIDA is  
a so-called "second perfect" -- where "second" means "more primitive"  
and "first" means "in common use." The second perfects have no KA  
forms, only the "primary" alpha endings; a verb comparable to OIDA in  
its perfect-tense usage is first-perfect hESTHKA, older second-perfect  
hESTAA. hESTHKA is like OIDA in that it is "like" a present tense in  
its sense: hESTHKA means "I am standing" as OIDA means "I wis" or (to  
run the peril of etymologizing) "I envision fully." Another is  
ἐγρήγορα [EGRHGORA] "I am awake" from ἐγείρομαι  
[EGEIROMAI} "awake."The older grammars used to speak of two  
fundamental meanings that perfect-tense forms can bear: (1) completion  
of an action as a reality and (2) state obtaining as a consequence of  
that completion. Aristotle somewhere (Metaphysics? I haven't taken the  
trouble to look it up) uses the present- and perfect-tense forms to  
illustrate the distinction between potentiality/possibility  
(δύναμις [DUNAMIS]) and actuality/realization (ἐνέργεια  
[ENERGEIA]); ἑστηκέναι/ἑστᾶναι is the ENERGEIA of  
the verb we know as στῆναι [STHNAI] in the aorist,  
ἵσταμαι [hISTAMAI] in the present (leaving out of account the  
transitive causative forms ἵστημι [hISTHMI] and ἔστησα  
[ESTHSA]). The theoretical aspectologists don't see eye-to-eye on how  
to describe forms like OIDA and hESTHKA. Some describe them as  
"stative" aspect while others (Con Campbell, at any rate, who has  
written the only "textbook" on Aspect) prefer to speak of them as  
Imperfective aspect of verbs whose Aktionsart is Stative.

My own thinking is that the Koine perfect tense in common usage is a  
hodgepodge of older and newer usages in a language that is clearly in  
flux; I think that in many instances in the GNT there's little if any  
difference between a perfect indicative and an aorist in intended  
meaning; verbs like OIDA and hESTHKA and their compounds make up a  
considerable portion of the perfect-tense forms to be found in the  
GNT, and they function much as do presents and imperfects (the  
textbook I once used to teach Classical Attic (Reading Greek) called  
them, as I recall, "quasi-present." The aorist of these verbs  
indicates completed process: EIDON "I saw" or ESTHN "I stood" or "I  
stopped going." The perfect-tense forms indicate present state: OIDA  
"I know" ("I envision fully"), hESTHKA "I am standing."

> First, OIDA has a stem ID- with athematic present indicative endings  
> (ISMEN [=ID+MEN], ISTE, ISASIN) and with athematic present  
> imperative endings (ISQI [=ID+QI], ISTW, ISTE, ISTWSAN), and a stem  
> OID- with 2nd-perfect indicative endings (OIDA [=OID+[K]A], OIDAS,  
> OIDEN, OIDAMEN, OIDATE, OIDASIN).
>
> But then it also has a stem EID- that confusingly has both perfect/ 
> pluperfect and present/imperfect endings. While EID- appears to be a  
> true perfect-reduplicate of ID- (can anyone explain, though, how one  
> gets from ID-/EID- to OID- in the perfect indicative?), it's perfect/ 
> pluperfect endings are easily mistakable for the present/imperfect.
>
> My conjecture is that any distinction in meaning between "to be  
> aware" and "to have been aware" was so completely lost that the  
> tense-endings themselves became misunderstood and interchangeable.
>
> In Koine Greek , the pluperfect of OIDA is HiDEIN [=E+EID+ 
> [K]EIN],HiDEIS, HiDEI, HiDEIMEN, HiDEITEI, and HiDEISAN (s. Smyth  
> 798).
>
> However, the Classical pluperfect of OIDA (Smyth 794) is HiDH [=E+EID 
> +[K]H], HiDHS, HiDEI, HiDEMEN, HiDETE, and HiDESAN. Of these, HiDHS,  
> HiDEMEN, HiDETE, and HiDESAN look exactly like, and probably came to  
> be confused with, a present stem EIDE- with athematic imperfect  
> endings (e.g., HiDEMEN = E+EIDE+MEN instead of E+EID+[K]EMEN]).
>
> Further, the perfect subjunctive (EIDW [=EID+[K]W], EIDHiS, EIDHi,  
> EIDWMEN, EIDHTE, EIDWSIN) is indistinguishable from a present stem  
> EIDE- with present subjunctive endings (EIDW = EIDE+W), as also is  
> the perfect infinitive EIDENAI [=EID+[K]ENAI] indistinguishable from  
> a present infinitive EIDE+NAI.
>
> Unambiguiously imperfect forms followed: HiDHSQA [=E+EIDE+SQA] and a  
> new stem EID-: HiSMEN [=E+EID+MEN], HiSTE [=E+EID+TE], HiSAN [=E+EID 
> +SAN].
>
> And then so followed the future: EIDHSOMAI [=EIDH+SOMAI] and EISOMAI  
> [=EID+SOMAI].
>
> In short, so far as I can tell, it is this confusion of tense- 
> endings that indicate to us that OIDA has no (meaningful?)  
> distinction in meaning between the present and perfect.
>
> Regards,
> Tom Moore
>
>
>> -------Original Message-------
>> From: Oun Kwon <kwonbbl at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [B-Greek] hHiDEIS Mt 25:26
>> Sent: Dec 03 '08 04:59
>>
>> BDAG has it under OIDA, the first line reads
>>
>> really the perf. of the stem EID- (Lat. video), but used as a pres.
>>
>> What does it mean by really the perf. ~ but used as a pres? Is it  
>> common?
>>
>> Oun Kwon.
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Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)





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