[B-Greek] Thread closed: "monon" - I Cor. 15:19

Carl W. Conrad cwconrad2 at mac.com
Fri Mar 30 03:30:24 EST 2007


It is time to call a halt to this thread; it has long since ceased to have
any focus on the grammatical function of MONON and moved into
matters of doctrinal interpretation and doctrinal argument supported
by strings of citations (in English translation, not in Greek text) 
supporting the positions taken. Please desist from continuation of
the thread.

Carl W. Conrad
Co-Chair, B-Greek

 
On Friday, March 30, 2007, at 02:38AM, "Harold Holmyard" <hholmyard3 at earthlink.net> wrote:
>Dear Dave,
>
>I think the verse you have insufficiently considered in Paul's argument 
>is 1 Cor 15:13. See below:
>
>> [Dave]
>>   
>>>> Paul's argument seems invalid to me if "monon" modifies the 
>>>> adverbial 
>>>> prepositional phrase "in this life."  If Paul was saying that 
>>>> believers were pitiable because they hoped in Christ "in this life 
>>>> only," then he would be implying that, in order not to be pitiable, 
>>>> Christians must continue to hope in Christ "in the next life" too.  
>>>> But that doesn't make sense.  Their hope was _fulfilled_ in 
>>>> the next life.  One does not continue to "hope" for something that 
>>>> is "seen" after "this life." (Rom. 8:24)
>>>>       
>>  
>>   
>>> HH:  First, I don't see why it is impossible for people to 
>>> hope in Christ even in eternity. We will continue to look to 
>>> him for all good. 
>>> In Rom 8:24 the hope is specified as the adoption of sons and 
>>> redemption of the body. That hope will be fulfilled at the 
>>> resurrection and so will no longer be a hope. But there can 
>>> be other things to hope for in Christ even in eternity, can't 
>>> there? 
>>>     
>>
>> But Paul was speaking _specifically_ of the hope of the resurrection of the
>> dead.  As you said, that hope does not continue "in the next life."  It is
>> "fulfilled."  Therefore, hoping for the resurrection "in this life only"
>> would be a normal and good thing.  From a theological standpoint then, it
>> does not seem that "monon" modifies the phrase "in this life."
>>   
>
>HH: It is not necessarily true that Paul was speaking specifically of 
>the hope of the resurrection of the dead. He is addressing people who 
>deny that there is a resurrection (and so implicitly deny Christ's 
>resurrection), yet they claim to be followers of Christ. Paul can be 
>speaking generally of our relationship with Christ, of putting our hope 
>in Christ. See other examples of such a usage, though it is often the 
>cognate verb instead of the noun:
>
>1Pet. 3:5 For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their 
>HOPE in God used to make themselves beautiful. They were submissive to 
>their own husbands,
>
>1Tim. 4:10  (and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our 
>HOPE in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of 
>those who believe.
>
>1Tim. 6:17  Command those who are rich in this present world not to be 
>arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to 
>put their HOPE in God, who richly provides us with everything for our 
>enjoyment.
>
>Eph. 1:12 in order that we, who were the first to HOPE in Christ, might 
>be for the praise of his glory.
>
>1Th. 1:3 We continually remember before our God and Father your work 
>produced by faith, your labor prompted by love, and your endurance 
>inspired by HOPE in our Lord Jesus Christ.
>
>
>>
>> Here was Paul's reasoning.....
>>
>> A. If there is no resurrection of the dead, then:
>> B. We have in this life hoped in Christ "only."
>>
>> A. And if in this life we have hoped in Christ "only," then:
>> B. We are of all men most to be pitied.
>>
>> The truth of the second A-B argument is not conditioned upon whether or not
>> there is a resurrection of the dead.  The argument is true all by itself.  
>>
>> Paul was not implying:
>>
>> C. Hoping in Christ in this life "only" is pitiable only if there is no
>> resurrection of the dead.
>>   
>
>HH: I think the latter (C.) is exactly what he is implying. I may be 
>incorrect, but I see Paul's reasoning as:
>
>A. If there is no resurrection from the dead, then:
>B. Even Christ has not been resurrected from the dead
>
>A. If Christ has not been raised from the dead, then:
>B. Your faith is vain, you are still in your sins, and:
>C. The ones who have died in Christian faith have perished
>
>HH: The last protasis-aposdosis is capable of various ideas that all 
>come out in the same place. I appreciate what Solomon quoted about 
>Jerome and the ancient Ethiopic text favoring "in this life only." If we 
>follow sentence order, "in this life" may receive emphasis due to its 
>initial position in the sentence. In English the protasis might read a 
>couple of ways:
>
>A. If we have hoped in Christ with respect to this life only.
>A. If we have only hoped in Christ with respect to this life.
>
>HH: Dan Wallace, in Greek Grammar beyond the Basics, gives "with respect 
>to/with reference to" as a basic use of the the preposition EN
>
>B. We are the most pitiable of all men (since there is no resurrection, 
>and Christ has not been raised)
>
>HH: The various possible positioning of the adverb "only" don't 
>ultimately change the meaning. If you have hoped only in Christ in this 
>life, and there is no resurrection, then you are worse off than others 
>because your only hope is vain, since you are still in your sins. If you 
>have only hoped in Christ in this life, then you have less to show for 
>it than someone who did something else with his life. If you have hoped 
>in Christ in this life only, then you are more pitiable because what 
>Christ promised was forgiveness of sins and eternal life, neither of 
>which you will have.
>
>
>> If someone were to argue like this:
>>
>> A. If I get caught driving over the speed limit, then:
>> B. I will get a speeding ticket.  
>>
>> A. And if I get a speeding ticket, then:
>> B. I will pay a fine.  
>>
>> We would not conclude:
>>
>> C. Getting a speeding ticket results in paying a fine only if I get caught
>> driving over the speed limit.   ????
>>   
>
>HH: In Paul's argument everything depends on the reality of the 
>resurrection, and specifically Christ's resurrection. He is making no 
>point unrelated to that idea.
>>   
>>> HH: You see, his resurrection was the matter in doubt in the 
>>> minds of the people about/to whom Paul was writing:
>>>     
>>
>> Christ's resurrection was not in doubt (I Cor. 15:1).  The resurrection of
>> the dead was in doubt.  There is no implication that anyone at Corinth
>> denied that Christ was raised from the dead.  What was being denied was that
>> Christ's resurrection was going to result in the resurrection of "those that
>> slept" (I Cor. 15:20).
>>   
>
>HH: Christ's resurrection was in doubt in the Corinthians' mind. 1 
>Corinthians 15:1 begins a recitation of the gospel through which the 
>Corinthians would be saved "unless they believed in vain" (1 Cor 15:3). 
>They might believe in vain if they became confused about Christ's 
>resurrection. And that is what they were doing by doubting the 
>resurrection from the dead. For as Paul says very clearly:
>
>1Cor. 15:13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even 
>Christ has been raised.
>
>HH: To deny the resurrection, as some of them were doing (v. 12), was to 
>deny Christ's resurrection, and without Christ's resurrection, they 
>would believe in vain:
>
>1Cor. 15:17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you 
>are still in your sins.
>
>HH: Here are some thoughts on the text from Dr. Thomas Constable, a 
>professor at Dallas Theological Seminary:
>http://www.soniclight.com/constable/notes/pdf/1corinthians.pdf
>
>15:19 If the Christian's hope in Christ is just what he or she can 
>expect this side
>of the grave, that one deserves pity. Of course there are some benefits to
>trusting Christ as we live here and now (cf. 1 Tim. 4:8). However, we have
>to place these things in the balance with what we lose in this life for 
>taking
>a stand for Him (cf. Phil. 3:8; 1 Cor. 4:4-5; 9:25). If we have nothing to
>hope for the other side of the grave, the Christian life would not be worth
>living.
>
>To summarize his argument, Paul claimed that if believers have no 
>future, specifically
>resurrected bodies like Christ's, we have no past or present as well. 
>That is, we have no
>forgiveness of our sins in the past, and we have no advantage over 
>unbelievers in the
>present.
>
>"It is a point of very great importance to remember that the Corinthians
>were not denying the Resurrection of Jesus Christ; what they were
>denying is the resurrection of the body; and what Paul is insistent upon is
>that if a man denies the possibility of the resurrection of the body he has
>thereby denied the possibility of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, and has
>therefore emptied the Christian message of its truth and the Christian life
>of its reality."
>
>Yours,
>Harold Holmyard
>---
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>


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