[B-Greek] 1Tim 2:8-9 praying
Harold Holmyard
hholmyard3 at earthlink.net
Sat Mar 24 08:49:40 EST 2007
Dear Robert,
> I have a question regarding 1 Timothy 2:8-9. Here is the
> text:
>
> 2:8 BOULOMAI OUN PROSEUCESQAI TOUS ANDRAS EN PANTI TOPWi EPAIRONTAS hOSIOUS
> CEIRAS CWRIS ORGHS KAI DIALOGISMOU
>
> 2:9 hWSAUTWS KAI GUNAIKAS EN KATASTOLHi KOSMIWi META AIDOUS KAI SWFROSUNHS
> KOSMEIN hEAUTAS MH EN PLEGMASIN KAI CRUSIWi H MARGARITAIS H hIMATISMWi
> POLUTELEI
>
> 2:10 ALL hO PREPEI GUNAIXIN EPAGGELLOMENAIS QEOSEBEIAN DI ERGWN AGAQWN
>
> In a discussion I'm having some thought that PROSEUCESQAI (present middle
> infinitive) should also be assumed in verse 9, so that Paul is telling men
> to pray lifting up holy hands and the women to pray becoming apparel. This
> comes from Young's Literal Translation. A. T. Robertson says that some also
> think that PROSEUCESQAI should be supplied in verse 9, which he thinks is
> possible, but doesn't think it should be so in this passage. The thought is
> that Paul is telling both men and women how they should pray.
>
> Others thought that BOULOMAI (I wish, desire) should be the verb assumed in
> both passages. Thus PROSEUCESQAI TOUS ANDRAS is a dependent clause becoming
> the first direct object of BOULOMAI and GUNAIKAS along with the
> infinitive KOSMEIN
> forms another dependent clause as the second direct object of the verb. To
> put it in a simple translation, "I desire the men to pray and likewise (I
> desire) women to adorn." So it seems that Paul is giving two different sets
> of direction to men and women.
>
> Any thoughts to guide our discussion? Also any thoughts on the phrase EN
> PANTI TOPWi? What does "in every place" mean? Is it the public assembly or
> wherever Christians are seen?
While having both verses address the subject of prayer seems attractive,
the difficulty for me is that the infinitival verb with women as its
subject seems to be KOSMEIN. If "adorn" were just a modifier explaining
how the women were to pray, I would expect it to be a participle like
EPAIRONTAS in the first verse for the men. But as the sentence stands,
PROSEUCESQAI TOUS ANDRAS seems to be the first object of the verb
BOULOMAI, with GUNAIKAS . . . KOSMEIN hEAUTAS the second object of it.
So I think hWSAUTWS in 2:9 can indicate the second thing Paul wants, but
it also suggests a parallelism to the wishes, which I find in the holy
nature of the behavior of both the men and the women.
As for place, I have always thought that the TOPWi here referred to
every place that believers live together, that is, every city. A quick
look at the occurrence of the word in the NT suggests that sense to me.
Here are a few representative verses. In the first three verses, it is
the same phrase in Greek as EN PANTI TOPWi, and in the fourth verse, a
similar phrase (in the first three I give the KJV for recognition purposes:
1Cor. 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are
sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every
place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
2Cor. 2:14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in
Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every
place.
1Th. 1:8 For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in
Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is
spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.
Luke 4:37 And the fame of him went out into every place of the country
round about.
Matt. 14:35 And when the men of that place recognized Jesus, they sent
word to all the surrounding country. People brought all their sick to him
Matt. 24:7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.
There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.
Mark 6:35 By this time it was late in the day, so his disciples came to
him. “This is a remote place,” they said, “and it’s already very late.
Yours,
Harold Holmyard
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