[B-Greek] Titus 2:11
frjsilver at optonline.net
frjsilver at optonline.net
Sat Aug 18 09:27:48 EDT 2007
Dear Friends --
I thank Carl Conrad for his insights, which got me thinking again.
In this statement, slightly modified to amplify the grammar as I feel it, the difference between my reading and Dr Conrad's is that he takes the adjective as attributive, whereas (on second thought) I now realize that I regard it as predicative:
EPEFANH GAR hH XARIS TOU QEOU (hH XARIS hH) SWTHRIOS PASIN ANQRWPOIS
'The grace of God shone forth, (that grace which is) salutary for all human beings.'
Were I to feel it as attributive, I would not have added the second hH in this expanded theoretical text; MG does the same thing more concisely.
And it comes as no surprise that the MG translation reflects this, not only because the elliptic possibilities are more easily appreciated in the more highly inflected forms available to Greek, but also because it is, after all, their language.
As an aside, we use this text for the Communion Hymn (KOINONIKON) for the Lord's Theophany (Baptism by John) on 6 January each year, a feast we affectionately call in Greek TA FOTA.
Anyway, I think I'll stick with my original reading.
Peace and blessings to all.
Monk James Silver
Orthodox Church in America
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl W. Conrad"
Date: Friday, August 17, 2007 5:38 pm
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Titus 2:11
To: frjsilver at optonline.net
Cc: Denise Parkes , b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> On Aug 17, 2007, at 11:53 AM, frjsilver at optonline.net wrote:
> > Dear Friends --
> > This seems to me to be a clear case of -- what can I call it
> > English? -- maybe an 'elliptic referent'?
> > It's not all that complicated or in need of elaborate explanations.
> > I read this line as saying:
> > EPEFANH GAR H CARIS TOU QEOU (H CARIS H) SWTHRIOS PASIN ANQRWPOIS.
> > Imagine the speaker pausing after QEOU, and maybe you can
> 'feel' it
> > as I do.
> > Does that help?
> Unfortunately, I think it begs the fact (petitio principii); it
> assumes that SWTHRIOS is attributive to CARIS. It's true enough
> some interpreters have read it this way, -- I see this in the
> Modern Greek version:
> DIOTI EFANERWQH H CARIS TOU QEOU H SWTHRIOS EIS PANTAS ANQRWPOUS.
> and it reflects the TR and the MT,
> EPEFANH GAR hH CARIS TOU QEOU hH SWTHRIOS PASIN ANQRWPOIS
> which accounts for the KJV version, "For the grace of God that
> bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,"
> I certainly would have expected that article (hH) before
> SWTHRIOS if
> it is to be understood as attributive, But it doesn't seem to be
> there in the older MSS.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Denise Parkes
> > Date: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 10:01 pm
> > Subject: [B-Greek] Titus 2:11
> > To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> >> Titus 2:11: EPEFANH GAR H XARIS TOU QEOU SWTHRIOS PASIN ANQRWPOIS.
> >> This verse seems to be straitforward. Both the NASB and the RSV
> >> translate
> >> this verse thus: For the grace of God has appeared, bringing
> >> salvation to
> >> all men.
> >> But the NIV and the KJV add the word "that" to give a different
> >> meaning ie:
> >> For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to
> all men.
> >> This NIV/KJV translation seems awkward, especially when the word
> >> "that" has
> >> to be added to make it work.
> >> Is there ambiguity in the original Greek?
> >> Looking forward to your help,
> >> Denise Parkes
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> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> cwconrad2 at mac.com
> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
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