[B-Greek] Teaching Greek in churches [Was: Teaching mi verbs first]
frjsilver at optonline.net
frjsilver at optonline.net
Thu Aug 2 19:48:25 EDT 2007
Dear Friends --
Here's a slightly different approach.
In most Greek Orthodox parishes in North America, the 'preservation of Hellenic identity and culture' is given high priority -- sometimes higher priority than I would assign it vis-a-vis religious instruction and worship, but they didn't ask my opinion....
Anyway, even the very youngest children in parish schools are instructed in the Greek language. They start with, e.g., ALFA BHTA, FAGEI PITA just like children in any language start with sounds and simple vocabulary. They DON'T start with EN ARCHi HN hO LOGOS.
Yet, after a while, most of them advance to the point at which they can understand the New Testament, especially, and some go on to further formal studies in the Greek language.
I'm not a native speaker of Greek, but that's how I learned, and I didn't start till I was nine years old, and voluntarily on my own initiative, since I didn't come from a Greek Orthodox parish. But once I got there, I learned the names for all the cookies and desserts first. I learned the bad words and the dances later. [[;-D33
Peace and blessings to all.
Monk James Silver
Orthodox Church in America
(where we pretty much never serve in Greek)
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Westfall
Date: Thursday, August 2, 2007 12:33 am
Subject: [B-Greek] Teaching Greek in churches [Was: Teaching mi verbs first]
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> John and David,
> I've been teaching Greek to a group of adults at my church, and
> our approach
> is probably a little unusual for such a setting. Although their
> goal is to
> be able to read the New Testament in Greek, I've started them
> with Classical
> rather than Koine Greek. We are using the Athenaze grammar from
> OxfordUniversity Press, along with its accompanying Workbook.
> Some people may think we're nuts, but I have found this to be a
> good way to
> approach it. Athenaze actually includes both Classical and NT
> readings with
> almost every chapter, and I've been supplementing that with
> additional NT
> readings generally drawn from the Sunday lectionary (glossed as
> necessary).Pedagogically, it is a hybrid of inductive and
> deductive methods. It
> emphasizes the primacy of reading, and one learns new language
> features by
> encountering them first in the readings. This is followed by a more
> systematic presentation of grammar.
> After we finish volume 2 of Athenaze, I will probably have them
> all get hold
> of the on-line version of Funk's Beginning-Intermediate Grammar of
> Hellenistic Greek (if it's complete by then) to help with differences
> between Classical and Koine. But the reality is that by that
> time they will
> already have become accustomed to most of the differences inductively
> through their NT readings.
> My hope is that when we're done, the students will have a better
> feel for
> language features and different literary styles than if they had only
> studied Koine.
> Steve Westfall
> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of David McCoy
> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 1:32 PM
> To: Carl W. Conrad; John M.Linebarger
> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Teaching mi verbs first
> I will also be teaching a first year Greek class at our church
> this Fall,
> using Mounce's Basics of BIblical Greek, so I appreciate being
> privy to this
> I have a number of grammars and have had various contacts over
> the years,
> and have never heard of anyone teaching "mi" verbis first.
> Carl's advice
> sounds great to me.
> John, perhaps we can stay in touch, either via B-Greek if there
> are topics
> of interest to all, or offline just for mutual advice and
> David McCoy
> On Wed, 1 Aug 2007, Carl W. Conrad wrote:
> > Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 14:04:05 -0400
> > From: Carl W. Conrad
> > To: John M.Linebarger
> > Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> > Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Teaching mi verbs first
> > On Aug 1, 2007, at 1:18 PM, John M. Linebarger wrote:
> >> Hello! Deus [Deo?] Volente, I will be teaching a first year
> >> class at our church this Fall, using Mounce's Basics of
> >> Greek. I have been advised by my teacher and mentor, Dr.
> >> Riddle, that it would be wise to teach mi verbs first instead
> >> omega verbs, because mi verbs occur all over the New
> Testament, and
> >> because mi verbs are often an afterthought in the teaching of
> >> year Greek.
> >> The problem is paedogogy, finding appropriate exercises to
> teach mi
> >> verbs that don't presuppose omega verbs and other moods
> having been
> >> taught first. Mounce teaches mi verbs last, and his
> exercises are
> >> rife with things taught in the previous chapters.
> >> Two questions. First, what does the group think about this
> >> Second, what exercises and sources would you recommend should
> >> decide to go ahead and try to teach mi verbs first?
> > (1) The rationale strikes me as fishy from the start: MI-verbs
> do not
> > appear ubiquitously to any greater extent than do W-verbs. Of
> > this is a NT Greek class, but a somewhat comparable approach
> > Classical Greek was the one used at University of Text at one time
> > (Morgan?) that did Ionic dialect and read Herodotus for the
> > semester before shifting over to Attic, on grounds that
> there's no
> > irregularity of long alpha and eta vowels in Ionic. It matters
> not a
> > whit with what item you begin; you will find that you can't do
> > exercises or readings without building them upon elements not
> > introduced and needing explanations.
> > (2) Exercises and sources -- if you decide to go through with this
> > experiment:
> > (a) Whatever you do, don't create artificial sentences that
> aren't at
> > least very closely based upon authentic Greek texts; (b)
> > (b) Choose source texts that only use -MI verbs, if you can
> > them. If you can't, then consider going back and starting with
> > verbs; if you decide to do that, I would urge that you get
> > into contract verbs, inasmuch as they really ARE ubiquitous.
> > Carl W. Conrad
> > Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> > ---
> > B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek B-Greek
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> David's cell: 512-659-0623
> Juley's cell: 512-659-0624
> "... if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and
> believe in your
> heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." (Rom
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