[B-Greek] "Wisdom, let us attend!'
eunice.yantzi at utoronto.ca
eunice.yantzi at utoronto.ca
Wed Nov 2 09:44:29 EST 2005
About "Wisdom, let us attend" - Vespers - in an Orthodox tradition - how would
one write "Wisdom, let us attend" in koine Greek?
Quoting "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at ioa.com>:
> For what it's worth, my current thinking about ancient Greek voice is
> set forth at
> There are links on that page to the November 2002 PDF file setting
> forth my
> views as of that date; I intend to incorporate the newer thoughts on the
> page listed above into a revised version of that November 2002 document
> along with considerably more documentation. Also on that web page is a
> link to a short paper "Active, Middle, and Passive: Understanding
> Greek Voice" -- this was intended to help beginning students make sense
> of the unwieldy presentation of the subject set forth in most
> primers (and even some intermediate reference works).
> On Nov 2, 2005, at 7:45 AM, Lorinda Hoover and Jim Mossman wrote:
> > I realize I'm behind the times in responding to this, but it the
> > question
> > around deponents in this thread reminded me of an discussion I had
> > several
> > times with another pastor with whom I used to translate Greek and
> > Hebrew.
> > It always seemed to me that the the category of "deponent verbs" was
> > designed to help English speakers understand verbs that were
> > passive in
> > Greek but whose meaning was expressed in active voice in English.
> > This
> > discussion arose in part because my friend tended to treat deponent
> > verbs as
> > a voice distinct from passive, active, or middle. I've always
> > assumed that
> > "native" Koine Greek speakers wouldn't have made a conscious
> > distinction
> > between a "deponent" passive and a "true" passive. Am I correct in
> > this
> > assumption?
> > on 10/31/05 3:24 PM, Carl W. Conrad at cwconrad at ioa.com wrote:
> >> On Oct 31, 2005, at 3:37 PM, kgraham0938 at comcast.net wrote:
> >>> Just double checking myself, I was talking to a friend about OU
> >>> DUNATAI POLIS KRUBHNAI EPANW OPOUS KEIMENH of Matt 5:14.
> >>> He wanted to argue that KEIMAI here is passive, I told him that
> >>> KEIMAI here is deponent because it is intransitive therefore it
> >>> could not be a passive. But rather pointed to location, "a city
> >>> located on a hill..."
> >>> The only reason we were discussing this is because he wants to make
> >>> the passive mean something in his sermon to the effect of God
> >>> planting us etc. Anyway, way I correct? Is KEIMAI here deponent?
> >> It's traditionally categorized as a deponent, but that tradition is,
> >> as I have repeatedly urged, not worth retaining. KEIMAI is a verb
> >> that only appears in the middle voice; it means "lie" or "rest" --
> >> but it serves idiomatically as a perfect passive of TIQHMI, so that
> >> KEIMENH in the passage here means "lying upon" with the implication
> >> that it has been deliberatedly situated upon the hill.
> >> Carl W. Conrad
> >> Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
> >> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> >> cwconrad2 at mac.com
> >> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
> >> ---
> >> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
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> > ---
> > B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
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> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> cwconrad2 at mac.com
> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
> B-Greek mailing list
> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
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