[B-Greek] hUPOMONH in the Apocalypse
George F. Somsel
gfsomsel at juno.com
Sun May 30 21:04:38 EDT 2004
I'm sorry to have to deflate your ballon, but the NIV is not the least
bit literal here. The more "literal" translations make no sense, and the
ones that make sense aren't literal.
On Sun, 30 May 2004 19:15:51 -0500 "Harold R. Holmyard III"
<hholmyard at ont.com> writes:
> Dear George,
> >hUPOMONH appears 21 times in the Apocalypse -- Re 1.9; 2.2, 3, 19;
> >3.10;13.10; and 14.12. It appears 96 times in the entire NT.
> >it is translated "patience, endurance, fortitude, steadfastness,
> >perserverance." Note, however, Re 13.10
> >EI TIS EIS AIXMALWSIAN,
> >EIS AIXMALWSIAN hUPAGEI;
> >EI TIS EN MAXAIRHi APOKTANQHNAI
> >AUTON EN MAXAIRHi APOKTANQHNAI.
> >hWDE ESTIN hH hUPOMONH KAI hH PISTIS TWN hAGIWN.
> >The AV translates "Here is the patience and the faith of the
> >The ISV renders "This is what the endurance and faith of the
> >means." The ESV, RSV and NRSV give "Here is a call for the
> endurance and
> >faith of the saints." The NKJV has "Here is the patience and the
> faith of
> >the saints."
> HH: Here is the NIV:
> Rev. 13:7 He was given power to make war against
> the saints and to conquer them. And he was given
> authority over every tribe, people, language and
> Rev. 13:8 All inhabitants of the earth will
> worship the beast - all whose names have not been
> written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb
> that was slain from the creation of the world.
> Rev. 13:9 ¶ He who has an ear, let him hear.
> Rev. 13:10 If anyone is to go into captivity,
> into captivity he will go. If anyone is to be
> killed with the sword, with the sword he will be
> killed. This calls for patient endurance and
> faithfulness on the part of the saints.
> HH: We get comfortable with translations, and I
> may be wrong in liking the NIV, since perhaps a
> more literal translation would allow more
> nuances. The idea could also be that this is
> where the saints will demonstrate their
> >and Re 14.12
> >hWDE hH hUPOMONH TWN hAGIWN ESTIN, hOI THROUNTES TAS ENTOLAS TOU
> QEOU KAI
> >THN PISTIN IHSOU.
> >The ISV, ESV, RSV and NRSV translations give "Here is a call for
> >endurance of the saints . . ." which seems clearly wrong since
> there is
> >no "call" mentioned. The ASV and the AV and NKJV render "Here is
> >patience of the saints . . ." and the NASV "Here is the
> perserverance of
> >the saints . . ." which makes no sense.
> HH: You evidently don't prefer the more literal
> handling, which may be too unidiomatic in
> English. Again the NIV is:
> Rev. 14:9 ¶ A third angel followed them and said
> in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the beast
> and his image and receives his mark on the
> forehead or on the hand,
> Rev. 14:10 he, too, will drink of the wine of
> God's fury, which has been poured full strength
> into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented
> with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy
> angels and of the Lamb.
> Rev. 14:11 And the smoke of their torment rises
> for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night
> for those who worship the beast and his image, or
> for anyone who receives the mark of his name."
> Rev. 14:12 This calls for patient endurance on
> the part of the saints who obey God's
> commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.
> >In these verses this gloss does not seem to fit. It would appear
> >there is a sense which is different from and probably derived from
> >normal meaning. I would suggest that the author of the Apocalypse
> >this word in the sense of "conviction, confession" or even "creed."
> >Any thoughts? Does anyone agree that the meanings "patience,
> >etc." are inappropriate here?
> HH: I think the issue is not the meaning of the
> noun but the rhetorical force of the expression.
> The English "here is the endurance of the saints"
> is bland and probably does not convey the force
> of the Greek. I am not sure what that force is,
> but it is something like one of the following:
> "Here is where the saints really have to show endurance.
> "Here is where the saints' endurance really comes into play."
> "Here is the real test of the saints' endurance."
> "Here is where one really sees the endurance of the saints."
> HH: So I think it was an idiomatic expression.
> Both passages first highlight a preeminent
> danger-either suffering the wrath of the beast
> for not worshiping him, or worshiping him and
> suffering the wrath of God-and then indicate the
> need for endurance by the saints. There seems a
> deliberate interplay between the two passages due
> to the similar structure that you have pointed
> Harold Holmyard
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