[B-Greek] Conditionals in 1 Cor 13:8?
mrt at hisurfer.net
Mon Jan 19 21:02:10 EST 2004
Michael (the corrupt side of him) writes:
EITE... EITE... EITE these are first class conditional clauses
Michael (regenerate side) says:
I think I was incorrect in placing EITE in the category of First class
conditions. Looking at the manual: It's reserved for a protasis of EI +
indicative mood and any tense; with an apodosis of any mood or tense.
Still the structure of protasis with apodosis is expressed, perhaps others
will not see that and will debate this point. But hopefully we can agree on
that and see EITE as a conditional conjunction or in this case a conditional
disjuctive conjunction: "but if/whether there are..." :-)
----- Original Message -----
From: "mrt" <mrt at hisurfer.net>
To: "b-Greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Conditionals in 1 Cor 13:8?
> Tim Crews writes:
> I would like to see a discussion of the degree of conditionality that is
> present in the original language in this verse. Based only on what I see
> the English translation, it seems to me that the context points to a
> hypothetical situation being proposed, to make a rhetorical point as to
> supremacy of AGAPE over all of those other things. It does not
> indicate the belief that tongues and prophecy would actually cease.
> hH AGAPH OUDEPOTE PIPTEI. EITE DE PROFHTEIAI, KATARGHQHSONTAI. EITE
> PAUSONTAI. EITE GNWSIS, KATARGHQHSETAI.
> A few minor fixes can be made to your transliteration. For a detailed
> transliteration scheme see:
> EITE... EITE... EITE these are first class conditional clauses: if (there
> are) prophecies... Or - whether (it be)... or... First class a.k.a.
> True for the sake of argument. There are other descriptions for the first
> class, but the others I seen are confusing. And note that Assumed True
> the Sake of Argument does not imply that there is an argument taking
> Before we get into that let's examine the protasis/apodosis clauses.
> Protasis is the "if" clause, e.g. if there are prophecies. The apodosis
> the "then" clause e.g. (then) they will be done away with. And this goes
> for all three of them e.g. if there are tongues... etc.
> The verbs, they are KATARGEW (passive), PAUW (middle), KATARGEW (passive)
> cease/pass away, stop/come to an end. Some individuals have made a big
> out of the middle voice of PAUW, this is not necessary. (e.g.
> "automatically cease of themselves" cf. GGBB pg.422 but see D.A. Carson,
> Exegetical Fallacies 2nd. edition, pg. 76).
> Now on the conditional elements, again the passage reads "if/whether there
> are prophecies..." In this case the conditional elements are true, though
> this is not true at all times for the First Class condition (e.g. Matt
> 12:26). But here, yes, there are prophecies, tongues, knowledge, however
> they will each come to an end. The situation is not hypothetical, but
> reality. We know those gifts existed from the context of 1 Corinthians
> Paul probably uses these Conditional clauses for rhetoric sake. It seems
> more dramatic then saying: Love never fails, but prophecies will cease,
> tongues will end, and so forth. At least it gets the listener more
> with the discourse then stating the matter in simplistic forms. So when
> Paul says: "if there are..." Here the elicited response may be something
> like; "of course we know that there are prophecies, tongues, knowledge,
> now you're saying they'll cease? Ok that's news to us"
> Now the answer to when all of this ends is in v.10 hOTAN DE ELQHi TO
> (but when the perfect comes). Figure out TO TELEION and you will have
> answer on that.
> I guess that's about it as far as the Grk. elements of the passage.
> Michael Tarver
> Oregon, USA
More information about the B-Greek