[B-Greek] LOGIKOS - again...
Jeffrey B. Gibson
jgibson000 at comcast.net
Sun Jan 11 09:20:00 EST 2004
Iver Larsen wrote:
> > Philip Brown wrote:
> > >The following statement from BDAG supports Troels' suggestion it is to be
> > borne in mind that LOGIKOS means spiritual not only in the sense of
> > PNEUMATIKOS, but also in contrast to 'literal', w. the mng.'metaphorical'
> > (cp. Pel-Leg. p. 20: the bishop is the shepherd TWN LOGIKWN PROBATWN TOU
> > CRISTOU; Eus., HE 1, 1, 4 EK LOGIKWN LEIMWNWN; s. DMcCartney, ZNW 82, '91,
> > 128-32, w. emphasis on Hellenic connection of reason and verbal
> > communication)
> The quote above is from the third edition which we often designate as BAGD.
> In that edition, the suggested translation for Rom 12:1 is "spiritual
> Michael Tarver wrote:
> > From Philip's quote one might think BDAG supports
> > Troels' interpretation as "figurative" for LOGIKOS in Romans when they
> > actually put term in the context of:
> > "pert. to being carefully thought through, thoughtful LOGIKH LATREIA a
> > thoughtful service (in a dedicated spiritual sense) Ro 12:1 (the cognitive
> > aspect anticipates the phrase EIS TO DOKIMAZEIN hUAS TI TO QELHMA
> > TOU QEOU;"
> This must be a quote from the recent 4th edition (which I have not bought
> yet). At first glance I thought that BDAG has radically changed from the
> previous view of BAGD, but on reflection, I think it is simply looking at
> the word from a slightly different angle. If it is possible to combine the
> two angles, we are probably closer to the intended meaning.
> I don't believe that "thoughtful service" is an adequate translation in
> English, but "the spiritual dedication sense" is good.
> The phrase THN LOGIKHN LATREIAN hUMWN is grammatically and semantically
> linked primarily to what precedes and secondarily to what follows:
> 12:1 PARAKALW OUN hUMAS...PARASTHSAI TA SOMATA hUMWN QUSIAN ZWSAN, hAGIAN,
> EUARESTON TWi QEWi, THN LOGIKHN LATREIAN hUMWN.
> The church in Rome consisted of Jewish Christians who were used to lots of
> physical sacrifices
Is this so? There is a hidden assumption here that the Jews of Rome were
originally from Judea and/or had frequently participated in the Temple cult in
Jerusalem. But if, as I think is likely, those Christ believing Jews in Rome
whom Paul addresses were from the diaspora or had been born and had lived their
entire lives in Rome, they would have had no, or very little, direct experience
of sacrifice (or at least Jewish sacrifice to Yahweh), since this only took
place in the Temple in Jerusalem and many Diaspora Jews never or only rarely
made it there, despite their recognition that they were duty bound to go.
However, unless we're willing to say that discussion of the social background of
Roman Jews is on topic here since it helps to illuminate the context in which
Paul was speaking and the assumptions he was making about his readers
(something which is probably stretching things more than a little), I suggest
that any further posts on **this** mater be taken Off List.
Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon.)
1500 W. Pratt Blvd. #1
Chicago, IL 60626
jgibson000 at comcast.net
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