[B-Greek] LOGIKOS - again...
mrt at hisurfer.net
Sat Jan 10 12:37:38 EST 2004
Philip Brown wrote:
>The following statement from BDAG supports Troels' suggestion it is to be
borne in mind that LOGIKOS means spiritual not only in the sense of
PNEUMATIKOS, but also in contrast to 'literal', w. the mng.'metaphorical'
(cp. Pel-Leg. p. 20: the bishop is the shepherd TWN LOGIKWN PROBATWN TOU
CRISTOU; Eus., HE 1, 1, 4 EK LOGIKWN LEIMWNWN; s. DMcCartney, ZNW 82, '91,
128-32, w. emphasis on Hellenic connection of reason and verbal
I don't think Philip meant this, I think he is only pointing out that
Troels' translation has warrant, at least the 1 Pet 2:2 passage. But for
clarification I say this. From Philip's quote one might think BDAG supports
Troels' interpretation as "figurative" for LOGIKOS in Romans when they
actually put term in the context of:
"pert. to being carefully thought through, thoughtful LOGIKH LATREIA a
thoughtful service (in a dedicated spiritual sense) Ro 12:1 (the cognitive
aspect anticipates the phrase EIS TO DOKIMAZEIN hUAS TI TO QELHMA TOU QEOU;"
Now Troels' statement appears to me to imply that LOGIKOS be taken as ~a
figurative expression; he says:
> The final words of Rom 12:1 should be translated thus: "This is your
figurative temple service" - meaning that whatever the Israelites did to
their sacrificial animals was what the Romans should do figuratively
speaking with their bodies. The decisive words of !Pet 2:2 [sic 1 Pet 2:2]
should be translated thus: "This is your figurative pure milk" - meaning
that as newborn babies thrive on pure milk, so the elected ones should
thrive on the living stone i.e.. Christ.
Here are our basic choices for understanding LOGIKOS. (1) rational,
logical, reasonable, thoughtful, belonging to the real nature of something
(2) belonging to the sphere of the mind and spirit spiritual
The use of the meaning "logical" (1) is well-established going back to
Aristotle (IV BC). One might even call him our first "Spock" (Star Trek).
Now if Paul meant LOGIKOS in Rom 12:1 as a "figurative expression" I would
think that he would rather of chose the term PARABOLH (figure) and so
wording it something like: EN PARABOLHi - in a figure ~figuratively
There also doesn't need to be the tendency to translate this with the same
word "figurative," both in Rom 12:1 & 1 Pet. 2:2 as Troels suggests to do
Now I like how BDAG cues in on the context of Romans as they make a decision
on the meaning of LOGIKOS. When they mention the phrase in the following
verse EIS TO DOKIMAZEIN hUAS TI TO QELHMA TOU QEOU "that you may
discern/prove what the will of God is" (Rom 12:2). But to this they could
have also added ANAKAINWSEI TOU VOOS ~renewal of your *mind* (12:2). So it
is in this context that BDAG decides to render the term as "thoughtful."
Therefore this is why I think "rational/reasonable" fits well in the Rom
12:1 context. As Spock would say; "That would be LOGIKHN." 1 Pet 2:2 may
be a different matter, I didn't really look into that passage.
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