[B-Greek] RE: Master's degree in NT Greek?

Roy E. Ciampa rciampa at netzero.net
Sat Jun 21 16:44:52 EDT 2003


Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary offers a Master of Arts degree in
Biblical Languages (http://www.gordonconwell.edu/academics/mabl.html).
I highly recommend it!

Roy Ciampa

------------------------------------------
Roy E. Ciampa, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of New Testament
Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary
130 Essex Street
South Hamilton, MA  01982


Message: 4
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:23:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: waldo slusher <waldoslusher at yahoo.com>
Subject: [B-Greek] Master's degree in NT Greek?
To: b-greek question <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <20030620212343.32570.qmail at web41112.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Does anyone know of a one (or two) year Master's
degree in Biblical Language(s) for students who have a Bachelor's degree
in Bible/Greek. I really do not feel like going 4 years for a Master's
of Theology. I was hoping there is something more concentrated in Greek
and possibly some Hebrew.


=====
Waldo Slusher
Calgary, AB

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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:04:03 GMT
From: plstepp at juno.com
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Master's degree in NT Greek?
To: waldoslusher at yahoo.com
Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <20030620.180414.2567.112835 at webmail10.nyc.untd.com>
Content-Type: text/plain


Abilene Christian University has an MA in NT Greek, but it is INCREDIBLY
deep and scholarly--it's virtually Ph.D. level work, requiring a reading
knowledge of German and French, etc.  As I understand, it's more aimed
at people who already have at least an M.Div.

Have you considered an MA in classics?  That would certainly get your
Greek chops up and flying.

Perry L. Stepp, Ph.D. 

Associate Professor, Biblical Studies, Kentucky Christian College

We can only possess what we experience: 
Truth, to be understood, must be lived.
     --Charlie Peacock

--- waldo slusher <waldoslusher at yahoo.com> wrote:

Does anyone know of a one (or two) year Master's
degree in Biblical Language(s) for students who have a Bachelor's degree
in Bible/Greek. I really do not feel like going 4 years for a Master's
of Theology. I was hoping there is something more concentrated in Greek
and possibly some Hebrew.


=====
Waldo Slusher
Calgary, AB

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---
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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:30:56 +0100
From: al <al at onetel.net.uk>
Subject: [B-Greek] Re: transcription to Greek from semitic languages
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <20030620193056.A2782 at Cave.Twelve>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Dear Schmuel,

As Ken wrote, I brought this topic to the table last year.  Regarding
words borrowed by native Greek speakers from Semitic languages, I think
we are asking the wrong questions if we ask what we should/would expect
to be the case (no pun intended).  What we really need is a
comprehensive treatment of the Aramaic and Hebrew loanwords found in
Greek.  While Muraoka and Hatch/Redpath is a good start, these are only
for the LXX.  To properly address the issue, one needs to consider the
various major corpora in the language environment in question.  

That is to say, if we are interested in Greek language borrowings in
first-century Judaea, there are certain texts we should consult and
certain ones to which we should give less prominence for the task. While
one cannot dispute a certain amount of idiomatic currency between
Alexandria and Italy, it would be naïve to think that both places and
all in between used the same exact linguistic register.

In this regard, you would want to consider different texts for the
different parts of the New Testament.  Not even the "Old Testament in
Greek" is to be used at all times.  It was not the version of choice
throughout the Empire but was used by certain major writers (e.g.,
Matthew, Paul, et al.).

As Ken suggested, the time at which the borrowing occurred would seem to
have something to do with it.  Another, perhaps more important, matter
is that of who is doing the borrowing.  For example, if a Greek soldier
were writing back to his superiors and had to write about why the Jews
always took off one day out of every seven, he might be inclined to
adopt "Shabbat" as a technical term.  He would, however, have to do this
in such a way that his superiors understood the context of the sentence,
and so he might attach a case ending on it -- Sabbatos.  However, if
religious folk -- Christian Jews or another variant of Judaism -- were
writing in Greek but wanted to use "Rabbi" or "Abba" with a significant,
religious connotation that is not readily contained in "didaskalos" or
"pater", they would have to carry the word from Aramaic or Hebrew into
Greek; there is no other way.

Consequently, for each loanword, one would have to wade through the
textual data, find where the word occurs first, and try to trace, as
much as possible, the spread of its usage.  It would seem that one can
speak with confidence on the matter only after having done this
groundwork.  [Ere someone say that "Shabbat" was used first by
Christians in Asia Minor or some other place, I would stress that the
above example is purely hypothetical and offered for illustration.]

After all this textual and linguistic work is done, one still must
reckon with problems in the texts themselves.  This is where all the
good work and will in the world could come to nought.  For general
purposes it would probably suffice to work off the generally accepted
hypotheses about a Gospels' provenance.  However, behind every Gospel is
a series of sources whence the author drew and of whose original
provenance/language environment we cannot be sure.  While we may think
the Gospel of Mark was written in Syria, the author/compiler/redactor
might be using works written in any one of several languages and from
any one of several areas.  The commonly used methods of analysis do not
(cannot?) account for one or more polyglots in the chain of textual
tradition who worked from texts that were written in multiple languages
and drawn from multiple locations.  Obviously, this will throw off our
results with the foregoing method, no matter how good our work is.

Hope this helps,
Al


-- 

Albert Lukaszewski
University of Saint Andrews
Saint Andrews, Scotland


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PREVIOUS MESSAGE:

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:29:52 -0400
From: Schmuel <schmuel at escape.com>
Subject: [B-Greek] transcription to Greek from semitic languages -
        case    endings, hebraisti
To: "b-greek at franklin.oit.unc.edu" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030619091324.09a6f568 at pop.escape.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
        
Hi b-greek,

   I have a question about words in Greek that are done as transcription
(or, if you prefer,
transliteration) from Hebrew or Aramaic to Greek.  In a sense it is an
overall, general translation question, and I will use one Scripture
passage as the
+example.

John 19:13
When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat
down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in
the
+Hebrew, Gabbatha.

Now, would we expect the Greek word "Gabbatha" to have Greek grammatical
structure, in terms of its case ending ?  ie.. Would such or a case
ending be expected to be added to a Greek grammatical form ? Or would we
expect the word to simply be brought over to sound as close as possible
to the source language ?
   
(Yes, this is part of a raging debate about Hebraic or Aramaic origins
of certain words  in the New Testament, and the definition of
"hebraisti", my purpose here is  to understand what we would expect in
the Greek, and how "solid" or "flexible"  our understandings of this
are).
      
All help appreciated...

The topic is fairly interesting on a whole, and some folks conjecture
based upon what is considered "correct" to my question above
    .... so I figured I would ask the experts :-)

Shalom,
Steven Avery
Queens, NY
www.messiahresearch.com


schmuel at escape.com Messianic_Apologetic-subscribe at yahoogroups.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic/
                    

------------------------------

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 17:41:05 +0200
From: "Iver Larsen" <iver_larsen at sil.org>
Subject: RE: [B-Greek] John 8:51 "never see death"
To: "Schmuel" <schmuel at escape.com>,	"b-greek at franklin.oit.unc.edu"
	<b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <NEBBIMKCNLGACONLDPPNCEBFDKAA.iver_larsen at sil.org>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

> ===================================================================
>
> Another question :-)
>
> John 8::51-52
>  Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall 
> never see death. Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou 
> hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest,
>  If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
>
> In both these passage there are Greek words untranslated in most 
> versions the- "eis aion"
>   never see death "for ever"
>   never taste of death "to the age"
>
> In your view..
>
> What is the significance of these two words, in this passage, and also

> John 11:26, in terms of ..
>    translation
>    doctrine
>    idiomatic usage
>
> It seems that the hearers were simply thinking in terms of physical 
> death (disregarding any ideas of resurrection, ie. physical death not 
> being permanent) as they immediately switched
> into discussing Abraham, who had died physically.  Ergo, I wonder
> if eis aion is basically idiomatic, not  changing the verse
substantively
?

As a translator I would say that the literal Greek "certainly not... for
ever" is translated well enough by the English "never". "He shall never
die" is already emphatic and would probably be read with stress on
"never". Jesus is talking about spiritual death/life as he clarifies in
11:25 (the believers shall live even if they die). The disbelieving
Jewish leaders misunderstand him as if he was talking about physical
death. The woman at the well had the same misunderstanding about never
thirsting again, Nicodemus had the same misunderstanding about spiritual
versus physical birth. Such spiritual/physical misunderstandings are
common in John's Gospel and part of John's theme.

I don't see a problem for translation, except that an idiomatic
translation would not talk about "seeing" or "tasting" death.

Iver Larsen


------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 08:45:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Peggy Rodina <peggyrodina at yahoo.com>
Subject: [B-Greek] Thank You for Answering "Seed" Word Question.
To: markosl80 at yahoo.com
Cc: B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <20030621154519.90591.qmail at web40801.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Thank you for answering my question on the various words used for NT
word  for "seed."  I copied it so I could study it.
 
I waited a very long time and worked very hard for the opportunity to
study ancient Greek language in Minnesota.  I do not want to lose the
learning I completed by not using it, so each day I try to read a New
Testament Greek passage.
 
A year ago I moved to Monterey, California, and have not been able to
find a class or learning opportunity to continue and maintain my
classical Greek study.  My goal is not a profession, but integrated
learning.  Any sugggestions?





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