CEP7 at aol.com
CEP7 at aol.com
Thu Jan 25 12:13:04 EST 2001
In a message dated 1/25/01 5:10:43 AM, virgilsalvage1 at email.msn.com writes:
<< Please bear with me before we look at the Genitive THS KTISEWS TOU
QEOU.... to listen to someone else from the past on this list say....I think
the numerous categories laid out for the adnominal genitive in Greek
grammars ( as opposed to partitive and ablatival functions) are all
interpretive categories developed by translators. The adnominal genitive
itself is simply a structual case, indicating that the substantive in the
genitive is dependent upon another nearby substantive; I don't think " that
any semantic function is inherent at all " in the construction, but that the
sematic relationship of the two substantives must be grasped or determined
from context, " if it is to be grasped at all." While semantic categories in
a grammar may aid an interpreter, I think it is a fundamental mistake to
suppose that they are inherent in the Greek. This also applies in particular
to " subjective" genitives and "objective" genitives, which don't
constitute defined categories in the Greek at all. < Snip>
One more brief comment please...thanks for your forbearance...The
Genitive describes what the substantive is characterized by and what it's "
genre " is.
Now..let the Greek genitive of THS KTISEWS TOU QEOU...do its qualifying.
The Ruling that that Lord is here in the relationship with....THS
KTISEWS...that which is characterized as having been
founded..constituted...made...brought to be..( thats us) we are His
creation, his bringing about to be in Christ...how do we know that...Eph
2:10b " created EN Christ Jesus "
The second qualifying Greek genitive....this will tell us what kind of
creating..founding has been done...TOU QEOU kind. This is the relationship
in Chap. 3...We are those by our standing and relationship with Christ that
we are the Sons of God...not just friends...not just in relationship...but
Sons...He is The ARCH THS KTISEWS TOU QEOU
He is in ruling relationship with the ones who are characterized by
what they are EN HIM...THS KTISEWS
This is not a 6 word parenthesis to talk about some doctrinal
category.....the Greek here in context and grammar is describing
relationship.....genre....allow me one reference to affirm this and then I'm
done....John 20:17b...And go to my " brothers ", and tell them, I am
ascending unto my Father...and "YOUR" Father....and to my God...and "YOUR"
God. "THS KTISEWS TOU QEOU"
He is the Ruling in relationship with ones who are characterized by
having experienced the creating, the founding of God that is characterized
by and includes God Himself. What an amazing principle and rich describer is
the Genitive Case. Marvelous! >>
Essentially what you have said is that Christ rules what is created by God.
You have therefore validated the genitives as verbal genitives (subjective
and objective). One other comment, the so-called syntactical categories are
not necessarily mutually exclusive. Many times certain categtories overlap.
Charles E. Powell, Ph.D.
(h) cep7 at aol.com
(w) cpowell at dts.edu
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