Predicative/attributive - position and function
moon at saint.soongsil.ac.kr
Sat Jan 20 23:56:47 EST 2001
thanks for the great insight. But I have some problems with your
explanation as well.
> Some examples:
> KALON TO hALAS (Mk 9:50) KALOS hO NOMOS (1 Tim 1:8)
> Salt (is) (a) good (thing). Law (is) (a) good (thing).
> Here we have a NP KALON/KALOS consisting of an adjective and an implied N (a
> good thing). This NP functions as a predicate in the sentence and is in
> agreement with the subject. The other NPs (salt, law) function as subjects. Each
> sentence consists of two NPs with the verb ESTIN implied.
I have no problem with saying KALON in the above sentence is in a
predicate position. Supplying the implied noun or verb complicates
the analysis. To me "I am happy" and "I am a happy person" mean
different things either in English or Greek. So, KALON in KALON TO hALAS
IS a predicate to TO hALAS rather than a modifier of the implied noun
> Since KALOS is a regular, descriptive adjective, if it had been part of an NP
> with an explicit N it would have been positioned differently:
> TO KALON hALAS the good salt (as opposed to bad salt)
> TO DENDRON TO KALON the good tree (as opposed to another good thing)
KALON in TO KALON hALAS is attributive, because it specifies an attribute
hALAS to determine the referent of hALAS. I have no problem with saying
that it is in an attribute position. TO DENDRON TO KALON is really two
phrases combined into one, as Carl said: "The tree, i.e. the good one".
TO KALON is an apposition to TO DENDRON. KALON is attributive but so with
respect to the implied noun one/thing, rather than DENDRON.
So, KALON is attributive in the same way in both examples. It is confusing
to say that KALON in TO DENDRON TO KALON comes after the modified noun
DENDRON. In fact, KALON comes before the implied modified noun one/thing.
attributive with respect to the implied noun thing.
But I do have problem with saying
that PANTES in PANTES hOI MAQHTAI or hOI MAQHTAI PANTES is in a predicate
position, because PANTES does not act as a predicate in the noun phrase
PANTES hOI MAQHTAI. PANTES contributes to the determination of the
referent of hOI MAQHTAI. But it does not specify an attribute or
property of MAQHTAI, but the quantity of them. It should be explained
why such quantifiers position differently from attributive adjectives
to the modified nouns. But it is confusing to say that these
quantifiers are in a predicate position to the modified nouns.
We had better invent a better name if we want to name their
position. See below about this.
> Let us look at some examples with demonstratives:
> Matt 12:45 THi GENEAi TAUTHI THi PONHRAi - To this evil group-of-people
As I indicated above, here we have three noun phrases arranged
"To the generation, this, the evil one". Saying that three NP's are linked
appositionally can explain why we do not have THi TAUTHi GENEAi.
> To sum up, I think it is more helpful to abandon the concept of attributive and
> predicative position of adjectives or other NP constituents. Instead, it would
> be helpful to talk about the different types of NP constituents, and for each
> type specify the normal, unmarked position both when the article is present and
> when it is not.
I think it should be the case when we talk about noun phrases, as I said
PAS is a strong
> quantifier which is inherently emphatic and the unmarked order is therefore
> before the noun. For the demonstratives there is no marked or unmarked order.
> Whatever word comes first is relatively more prominent. (The special cases of
> PAS occurring between the article and noun are then still "exceptions" which
> could be explained by PAS here functioning not as a strong quantifier, but as a
> descriptive adjective, somewhat akin to the difference between "all" and "whole"
> in English, where "all" occurs before the article, but "whole" after it.)
As I argued with Carl, I would think PANTES in
PANTES hOI MAQHTAI or hOI MAQHTAI is a collective pronoun and
PANTES and hOI MAQHTAI are appositional to each other.
hOI MAQHTAI PANTES = the disciples, i.e. all of them.
PANTES hOI MAQHTAI = all of them, i.e. the disciples.
In sum, PAS acts like demonstratives, and can be
appositionally combined with other NPs to form complicated NPs.
This is the conjecture I posit.
Sogang Univ, Seoul, Korea
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